Economy 10/7

overlandrover

I've recently fitted an electric wet central heating system on the proviso that I could use the Economy 10 tariff.

We're with Powergen, and don't wish to change energy suppliers. However Economy 10 is not promoted by Powergen, and it took some wrangling to transfer our tariff.

Our bill states we are on the E10 tariff, and our new meter (fitted before the new boiler was fitted) also has an E10 label on it.

However, the meter doesn't switch between rates at the predefined times of the day - Low (Night) rate only kicks in sometime overnight, and reverts to Day rate at 7:28 every morning (not 7:30 as it's meant too!).

To make matters worse, the meter does not register any readings on Rate 3 (the "Stored Heat" Rate). After several months it still reads zero.

Before I go back to Powergen again, is there something I'm missing?
Could the new boiler perhaps have been connected incorrectly?
Does the meter need reprogramming?

Any advice welcomed!!

peat

I believe that wet electric central heating is best used with a thermal storage system - see the third diagram on this site this shows a gas system for heating the water but its the same principal for electricity.
http://www.cda.org.uk/Megab2/build/h...s/domestic.htm
You will see from the diagram that the plumbing for a thermal store system is the opposite of a conventional system in that the rads are directly connected to the store.
The principal is that you heat the water in the thermal store at cheap rate electric times and then use the stored heat at whatever times suit your lifestyle.
The fact that your meter timer is 2 mins out is of no consequence, mine is half an hour out, I simply set my electric boiler activation times to suit.

PS It is not a good idea to have threads on the same subject running in two forums simultaneously - it gets confusing, better closing one down.

sloughflint

peat wrote:

I believe that wet electric central heating is best used with a thermal storage system - see the third diagram on this site this shows a gas system for heating the water but its the same principal for electricity.
http://www.cda.org.uk/Megab2/build/h...s/domestic.htm
You will see from the diagram that the plumbing for a thermal store system is the opposite of a conventional system in that the rads are directly connected to the store.
The principal is that you heat the water in the thermal store at cheap rate electric times and then use the stored heat at whatever times suit your lifestyle.
The fact that your meter timer is 2 mins out is of no consequence, mine is half an hour out, I simply set my electric boiler activation times to suit.

PS It is not a good idea to have threads on the same subject running in two forums simultaneously - it gets confusing, better closing one down.

Hi Peat
I tried that link and it didn't work for me but from previous advice you gave me I suspect the link is:
http://www.cda.org.uk/Megab2/build/heatdocs/domestic.htm
Very informative webpage.

tomstickland

Got passed onto the next person at southern electric who then said that 10 hours charging the storage heaters will damage them, yet the supplier of my new storage heaters (dimplex) actively say to try and get 10/12/18 hours off peak charging period to save money!!!!!

You could have your heaters connected to the mains 24 hours a day and it wouldn't damage them.

overlandrover

peat wrote:

I believe that wet electric central heating is best used with a thermal storage system...
...The principal is that you heat the water in the thermal store at cheap rate electric times and then use the stored heat at whatever times suit your lifestyle.

Thanks, Peat, but I couldn't get the link to work either until Sloughflint replied.

As for a thermal store, we were never advised this was an option, and as a consequence haven't fitted one. We were relying on being able to run the boiler in the daytime to boost the temperature in the house.

My gripe is that I cannot take advantage of cheap electricity on "Rate 3".

According to Powergen, the rates should be as follows:
- 00:00-02:00: Rate 2 only ("Day" only)
- 02:00-07:30: Rate 1 & 3 ("Night" and "Stored Heat" simultaneously)
- 07:30-13:30: Rate 2 only ("Day" only)
- 13:30-16:00: Rate 2 & 3 ("Day" and "Stored Heat" simultaneously)
- 16:00-22:00: Rate 2 only ("Day" only)
- 22:00-00:00: Rate 2 & 3 ("Day" and "Stored Heat" simultaneously)

Does anybody know how a Hortsmann Series K meter is able to split the load and monitor usage on two rates simultaneously? I can't help thinking that there should be another live wire coming from the bottom of the meter and feeding the heating system (be it storage heaters or wet system).

Lennylegs

Hi,
A quick update as I have seen a few more postings re: E10. I emailed Southern Electric, stating that i felt i was being unfairly treated/discriminated against & intentionally being shunted to flexiheat/superdeal without my best interests etc and this is the email i got back(hopefully it helps some of you out!)


Hello 'Mrs Lennylegs'

Thank you for your email.

I am sorry you have been given incorrect information.

I have spoken to our metering department and you need to book an
appointment for a meter change.

Please call our call centre on 08457 444 555, and ask for metering
appointments, where a mutually agreeable date can be booked with with you.

I apologise for any inconvenience caused to you.

Kind Regards


XXX
Customer Service


Good luck !!!!!!!;)

mcdon676

Hi

I would like to take you slightly off track for a moment as I am new to this. I am on Southern Electric Superdeal with the day, night & stored heat tarrifs but I am looking for a better deal. I have tried doing the online comparisons with no luck as nothing seems to have the three tier costs. I have also called a couple of companies but they couldn't help me either. I hope someone out there has had some luck or maybe Superdeal is already the best !!!

Cheers

H.H.

Terrylw1

Hi,

ALL electricity Suppliers have the ability to fit and use E10 metering and you don't need a set system attached to it - it's your personal choice based on the use at your property.

Now, here's the tricky bit.

E10 was introduced (as new metering often is) in certain areas which meant the traditional old Suppliers to those areas updated their systems to handle them. The problem is not the timings or really even the extra dials for the readings, it's the second MPAN needed. Back prior to de-reg 2 MPAN meters didn't exist in areas where they had never been fitted. So, when de-reg hit Suppliers didn't update their systems to handle the 2 MPAN. Suppliers old systems with the exception of a few always worked on 1 MPAN per meter.

So, if a Supplier says no, they are actively discouraging you from using their service. Ofgem don't allow this as it prevents your right of choice which was removed in de-reg. However, if you transfer to a Supplier that doesn't have a system to support them, I guarantee you will be on the phone all the time about while you getting estimates when they are reading the meter, why they can't bill you the correct unit prices etc...

As I have said ALL Suppliers have E10 metering in their Market Domain Data (MDD) which means they have to have an internal system to support it. If it's not in their MDD, they can refuse, however ALL Suppliers have the same MDD copy since de-reg removed their ability to be tied to 1 region.

Along with many other things, a Suppliers MDD tells them which meters they can support and in what regions. Now, E10 may not be allowed in all regions preventing Suppliers from fitting them everywhere but they can in the regions whee it is. Suggest you check whether you are in a region where the Meter Operator that the Supplier uses does not support them.

Even now BGas fit meters for their customers that other Suppliers cannot manage and hence have to change when you change Supplier.

Overlandrover - sounds like you got E7 I'm afraid on the meter side. If they have fitted E10, suggest contact your Supplier as it's not be set correctly by the engineer when fitted. Despite your tariff, if the dials don't move then parts of your consumption will be turning the wrong dials e.g peak in the day when your E10 burst if usually on. Also, I find that strange with PGen since thats 1 of the original Suppliers to have it fitted in their region!!!