Redundancy and illness

123helpme

Sorry for not coming back to the thread, I have had internet issues!

I decided to appeal the decision to make me redundant after my employer told me that there was no opportunities of part time work.

Whilst I appreciate what SarEl said, I have also had other advice which leads me to believe that my dismissal is unfair due to my disability, and have appealed on this basis. I can understand why the parts of my job role had to be redistributed in my absence but not why they can now not be given back to me, and on this basis my job role is not redundant. I have a mental health condition which has rendered me incapable of attending to even my most basic hygeine needs at times, and if this is not a disability then I dont know what is.

I have my meeting next week, where I fully expect the outcome to be upheld but I will then put a tribunal claim in and see how that goes.

Thanks

Jarndyce

123helpme wrote: »

I have also had other advice which leads me to believe that my dismissal is unfair due to my disability

Fair enough, assuming this is a legally qualified opinion having had the benefit of more of the facts than we have here, but nothing you have posted on this thread would lead me to believe that.

Would you like to share with us the information that you have so far held back - ie why you believe the emlpoyer has treated you less favourably on the grounds of your disability?

mrs_pickle_2

Pls do not just accept the situation. If you have home contents insurance or indeed any other insurance pls call them to ask if you have "legal expenses insurance" this means legal fees will be paid if it is deemed you have reasonable prospect of success at winning your case. If you don't visit local Citizen Advice Bureau for advice on case and a benefits check to see you are claiming everything you are entitled to by law. Good luck!

123helpme

But for my disability, I wouldnt have been off work and therefore my job role wouldnt have been reallocated internally. Does this not make it unfair?

Jarndyce

123helpme wrote: »

But for my disability, I wouldnt have been off work and therefore my job role wouldnt have been reallocated internally. Does this not make it unfair?

No, because they would, presumably, have treated a non-disabled person with the same sick record in exactly the same way.

SarEl

It wasn't just reallocated internally - it was also outsourced. So the job role as it existed changed out of all recognition. You cannot reasonably expect an employer, especially one of this size, to keep your job available for you indefinitely just because you have a disability. Things are not automatically unfair simply because someone has a disability. You were off on long term sick, PHI had kicked in - the employer has six employees. To be britally honest, if the employer had dismissed you months ago on capability grounds then a tribunal would have found it to be fair. Reasonable adjustments can only go so far, and keeping someone's job open for them when there are only six employees is never going to feature amongst them. Especially not in a period when the employer is managing cuts to their budget and reduced funding. You were selected on the grounds that your post had disappeared, and you yourself admit that their only other option, even if there were other similar jobs to yours, would be to pool you with others of the remaining five staff and make one of them redundant - if that were the decision they came to. The post you held has gone. This may have happened whether or not you had been off sick. But circumstances have conspired to give the employer no option but to say that they have managed without this post and have to continue to do so, because they cannot afford the post.

123helpme

I am sneaking back in with my tail between my legs as I do feel very foolish. I had my appeal earlier in the week and made a complete fool of myself in the meeting. My appeal was based upon whay I now realise is misguided understanding of the legislation and I feel that I have burnt any bridges that were still there between my employer and myself, I could kick myself for listening to those in real life!

My basis of my appeal was on failure to use an objective selection criteria, failure to offer reasonable adjustments and direct discrimination due to my disability but when the chairperson of the appeal tried to interrogate my reasonings, I had no answers for the questions as hand on heart I can now see that my employer had little choice but to proceed as they did, I think I knew this after my first meeting. I didnt even have any real idea of what reasonable adjustments could have been made for my role, I have made myself look very foolish indeed as a little more research of my own rather than relying on the word of those in real life, would have at least made me query whether I was doing the right thing.

The appeal has been rejected on the basis that the company had to make an objective decision about my job role going forward as I had been accepted onto PHI and they were not able to determine when/if ever I would be fit to return to work. As a small company the work I was employed to do was commercially critical and therefore needed covering which was achieved both internally and externally through outsourcing a small part of the role, coupled with the budgetary cuts the company is facing the rejection of my appeal is totally understandable.

I am seeking support from my local mental health team, as I feel that I have been led into this situation by my so called friends, and I don't want to suffer a relapse. I know that if I see these people in real lfe they will now be encouraging me to go to ACAS and a tribunal, which I won't do as I can see that my company had very little choice in the mattter.

skintandscared_2

Can I just wish you all the luck with the future and I really hope things turn around for you.

SarEl

123helpme wrote: »

I am sneaking back in with my tail between my legs as I do feel very foolish. I had my appeal earlier in the week and made a complete fool of myself in the meeting. My appeal was based upon whay I now realise is misguided understanding of the legislation and I feel that I have burnt any bridges that were still there between my employer and myself, I could kick myself for listening to those in real life!

My basis of my appeal was on failure to use an objective selection criteria, failure to offer reasonable adjustments and direct discrimination due to my disability but when the chairperson of the appeal tried to interrogate my reasonings, I had no answers for the questions as hand on heart I can now see that my employer had little choice but to proceed as they did, I think I knew this after my first meeting. I didnt even have any real idea of what reasonable adjustments could have been made for my role, I have made myself look very foolish indeed as a little more research of my own rather than relying on the word of those in real life, would have at least made me query whether I was doing the right thing.

The appeal has been rejected on the basis that the company had to make an objective decision about my job role going forward as I had been accepted onto PHI and they were not able to determine when/if ever I would be fit to return to work. As a small company the work I was employed to do was commercially critical and therefore needed covering which was achieved both internally and externally through outsourcing a small part of the role, coupled with the budgetary cuts the company is facing the rejection of my appeal is totally understandable.

I am seeking support from my local mental health team, as I feel that I have been led into this situation by my so called friends, and I don't want to suffer a relapse. I know that if I see these people in real lfe they will now be encouraging me to go to ACAS and a tribunal, which I won't do as I can see that my company had very little choice in the mattter.

I am really sorry about this outcome, not least because we did try to tell you this, and it is was apparant that you were not listening. Had we known that you had friends egging you on and misinforming you, we might have been able to better explore what they were actually telling you. And I might have also pointed out that my advice is based on being an employment law barrister - something that I don't often mention but quite a few people here know - because whilst I don't want to use this information as a "you need to believe me" line, in your case had I realised that you were getting such conflicting advice I probably would have done so. It might have made you think twice.

I would suggest that you are being a bit hard on yourself though. believe me - it took guts to even come back and own up to having been wrong to a bunch of strangers. You should see how many "a solicitor told me you are wrong" (when we know full well that a solcitor didn't!) face saving exercises we get; or people who never come back after arguing black is white and finding out they were wrong. It took real courage to 'fess up - so good on you.

And I doubt your employer is going to take this out on you. You exrecised a legal right and you didn't understand. Join the club - redundancy is always awful, and people don't always think straight. They see it from their own point of view - very understandably. But if you are worried, write to the person who chaired the session. Thank them for the time they allowed you in hearing your appeal, and tell them that despite the fact that you are obviously disappointed that you will not be working with them going forward, how much you have really appreciated working with them in the past, and how much you have appreciated their support too. Explain that you feel that having heard their explanation put in the way it was that you better understand their position and that the shock of the circumstances may have meant that you were perhaps not being as objective as you might otherwise have been.

I seriously doubt that you will get anything other than a genuinely meant response saying that they are really sorry to have had to do this, and that if you need any help in gaining future employment you can be assured of a good reference. They obviously went out of their way in the past to support you and I doubt that people of that ilk are going to be upset for more than two minutes, if at all, that you appealed - they do sound like you worked with some genuinely nice people and this is just a "life sucks" situation for everyone.