employment tribunal help.

dizzydotty_2

I am posting this message on behalf of my son who has a employment tribunal case upcoming this september.

He was dismissed form his job in march for bad timekeeping ,with no verbal warnings,no written warnings and no disciplinary hearing of any sort.

He was called into the office one day and told he was being dismissed and given one weeks notice.

In documents provided by his employer they have stated that in just over a year he had 3 days off and left work early on five occasions without permission.

They have stated that he received 3 verbal warnings which is not true at all.

The main problem is that I understand it is also unfair dismissal if any worker is dismissed for something which their co workers are not.

There is one employee who worked with my son and still works there now and we know for a fact that he has had a lot more time off than my son and also left work early on more occasions and has not even been given a verbal warning.

My question is how does my son go about proving this,I cannot imagine that he would be able to request the person in questions absence records as this is personal information however it is a important part of my sons claim in showing that he was indeed unfairly dismissed.

I am writing this on behalf of my son as he is not very good at expressing himself in written form, we cannot afford a solicitor so cannot find out the answer to this question.

Many thanks for any replies.

Uncertain

dizzydotty wrote: »

The main problem is that I understand it is also unfair dismissal if any worker is dismissed for something which their co workers are not.

No, not really - sorry.

Although this may be of SOME help it is nothing like as simple as that.

There can be a whole number of fair reasons why an employer may impose a lesser penalty on another employee for a similar offence.

Also, you have no particular rights of access to any information concerning the other employee's case.

You need to stick to the rights and wrongs of your case. On the face of it what you describe is procedurally unfair.

dmliverpool

Of the bat I don't think they played fair. However there may be silly terms in the contract your son has that may clear them. I would have a look at the disciplinary process in his employee hand book.
Also you can request a copy of the employee signing in book or system for a period of three months, which they probably won't give to you for confidentiality reasons, that could prove your case, but you would be relying on the times and attendance of other employee who will not want any involvement with this themselves nor will the company. I would stick to the disciplinary process and focus on not receiving warnings in the right way.

jobbingmusician

DAMN. Why have you not posted before? If he was dismissed in March he is OUT OF TIME for raising an employment tribunal. However, the employer sounds clueless so it is probably worth still doing the actions below, as you have nothing to lose.

In my opinion you have a stronger case because they have not followed their own disciplinary procedure than that your son has been treated less favourably than his colleagues. I expect SarEl might be interested in this one, so I wouldn't do anything for the next day to see if she has anything more sensible to say, however in the absence of a reply from her I would do the actions below - you have nothing to lose.

- ask for a copy of their disciplinary policy
- appeal against dismissal on the grounds that this was a first offence and NO previous warnings were given. Head the letter APPEAL AGAINST DISMISSAL.
- ask for copies of any previous warnings from the personnel file.

ACAS guidelines (which you should google) recommend that formal warnings are given, following a first verbal warning. ALL these stages should be recorded in writing and on the file.

Hammyman

dizzydotty wrote: »

There is one employee who worked with my son and still works there now and we know for a fact that he has had a lot more time off than my son and also left work early on more occasions and has not even been given a verbal warning.

My question is how does my son go about proving this

He cannot and neither does it have any bearing. The other person can have valid reasons for time off such as a disability or condition requiring specialist care.

dizzydotty_2

He already has his tribunal date as we set the ball rolling a few months ago,it is in september.

As for his contract,He has never been given one so not sure one even exists although as I understand this this could be illegal not to have one.

They have no disciplinary procedure in place neither,although since We have requested details of one for the tribunal ,I bet they make one up pretty sharpish .

dizzydotty_2

Hammyman wrote: »

He cannot and neither does it have any bearing. The other person can have valid reasons for time off such as a disability or condition requiring specialist care.

The other employee in question has a alcohol problem and turns up to work most days still under the influence and proceeds to use dangerous machinery,and the company let him

Uncertain

dizzydotty wrote: »

The other employee in question has a alcohol problem and turns up to work most days still under the influence and proceeds to use dangerous machinery,and the company let him

I know it is annoying but that is of little if any help to your son.

If you can prove this you may be able to drop the company in it from a health and safety point of view. However, although that might be fun it doesn't help with your son's claim.

jjww_2

dizzydotty wrote: »

The other employee in question has a alcohol problem and turns up to work most days still under the influence and proceeds to use dangerous machinery,and the company let him

If this is the case your son should report it to the health and safety executive for your region. As other peoples lives could be at risk.

As an employer although I disagree if the comapny your son works for have not followed the correct disciplinary process, has he got valid reasons why he left early or was off ? Although the number of days off is not particularly high i.m.o the number of times he has left early WITHOUT PERMISSION is high.

As an employer I would not accept this from my employees however I would also make sure I followed correct disciplinary procedures as tribunals are long, time consuming stressful things.

dizzydotty_2

Yes I know you are right and this is not about getting others into trouble .

The most annoying thing is that they are saying he had 3 verbal warnings when he did not,His dad worked alongside him and still works there now and he knows for a fact no such warnings were given.

I guess if they are saying that he had verbal warnings when he did not they are also going to go down the route of writing these "supposed " warnings down on paper.

I am hoping that as they are the ones lying and my son is telling the truth that this will become apparent to the judges at the tribunal.:D

smileylondongal

I agree - the case is about your son and pointing fingers at other employees unfortunately will not help his case as there could be a whole heap of other things you may not know about. Nothing is rarely that cut and dried.

I would consult with ACAS/CAB and find out what can be done at this stage. Whilst it is best practice to have a staged disciplinary process I don't know if it is law. If your son has been there less than a year he will have less rights than an employee with over a year (not sure if this is the case for your son but thought I'd mention it).

Whilst again it is best practice to have a contract so everyone knows where they stand, it's not a legal requirement to have one. Your son has been working there and paid so in effect he has been working under a contract even though there may not be a physical one.

However, I will say that if they are mentioning that they gave your son three warnings then it indicates they have a policy or at least know this is the 'right' thing to do and will have to prove it - dates, documents, etc.

Talk to ACAS or your local CAB and see what they say.