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employment tribunal help.
Comments
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If this is the case your son should report it to the health and safety executive for your region. As other peoples lives could be at risk.
As an employer although I disagree if the comapny your son works for have not followed the correct disciplinary process, has he got valid reasons why he left early or was off ? Although the number of days off is not particularly high i.m.o the number of times he has left early WITHOUT PERMISSION is high.
As an employer I would not accept this from my employees however I would also make sure I followed correct disciplinary procedures as tribunals are long, time consuming stressful things.
It has been reported to health and safety but as if yet no news.
My son accepts that his timekeeping was far from perfect ,on at least two occasions when he left early his supervisor knew he was going but I guess they are now saying he did not know.
We are not even sure that the amount of times they say he was absent/left early is correct as when he requested his attendance record after he was dismissed ,the company refused to go it to him.
He was also promised his p60 by the end of april and he is still waiting for that.0 -
dizzydotty wrote: »Yes I know you are right and this is not about getting others into trouble .
The most annoying thing is that they are saying he had 3 verbal warnings when he did not,His dad worked alongside him and still works there now and he knows for a fact no such warnings were given.
I guess if they are saying that he had verbal warnings when he did not they are also going to go down the route of writing these "supposed " warnings down on paper.
I am hoping that as they are the ones lying and my son is telling the truth that this will become apparent to the judges at the tribunal.:D
If they fabricate written evidence, and you can prove it, they could get in very serious trouble indeed. An employer in Scotland went to prison for this not so long ago!
Judges are normally very good at spotting when somebody is lying. Keep calm, with care you can usually trip them up if they start playing this game.0 -
Delighted to hear that you already have an ET in progress. I clearly ignored the first sentence of your post - apologies!
It may be helpful to you to read the first post of Employment Tribunal Help. If you didn't stress the procedural irregularities in your ET1 you should stress them in your statement.....Ex board guide. Signature now changed (if you know, you know).0 -
dizzydotty wrote: »It has been reported to health and safety but as if yet no news.
He was also promised his p60 by the end of april and he is still waiting for that.
Good hopefully HSE will take some action on this.
Deadline for p60 for year ending apr 2011 is May 31st 2011, so comapny are breaking deadline get in touch with tax office and explain they may be able to provide copy.
Thanks for explaining that your son is disputing (at least some of) the absences and supposed early finishes. Must Be pretty akward for your husband? Is it a very big company?0 -
If this is the case your son should report it to the health and safety executive for your region. As other peoples lives could be at risk.
As an employer although I disagree if the comapny your son works for have not followed the correct disciplinary process, has he got valid reasons why he left early or was off ? Although the number of days off is not particularly high i.m.o the number of times he has left early WITHOUT PERMISSION is high.
As an employer I would not accept this from my employees however I would also make sure I followed correct disciplinary procedures as tribunals are long, time consuming stressful things.
he was having a few problems with his then girlfriend ( he is 19 years old) and his supervisor knew this as they were quite good friends at the time.
On one of the occasions he left early ,he had overheard the 2nd works supervisor talking about him to a co worker complaining about him being on his mobile phone,even though it was lunchtime and they were outside of that buliding .
Being a pig headed teenage lad instead of staying and sorting the issue out,he went home in a huff,although He was pretty upset about it at the time.0 -
What you should be focusing on is whether the employer followed their own (or reasonable) procedures in dismissing him, not on whether your son was stupid. It may or may be lucky for your son, but it's irrelevant how many times he sloped off early, or how unreliable he was - the employer clearly did not follow a reasonable procedure in dismissing him. This is the focus of the tribunal in looking at your case.
By the way, this employer sounds liable to settle as soon as they get some legal advice, so don't forget to get an agreed reference as part of the settlement, if they suddenly turn round and offer you money to go away.Ex board guide. Signature now changed (if you know, you know).0 -
Good hopefully HSE will take some action on this.
Deadline for p60 for year ending apr 2011 is May 31st 2011, so comapny are breaking deadline get in touch with tax office and explain they may be able to provide copy.
Thanks for explaining that your son is disputing (at least some of) the absences and supposed early finishes. Must Be pretty akward for your husband? Is it a very big company?
No it is a small company consisting of 15 employees ,
I think my husband found it slightly awkward to begin with but since finding out they are telling downright lies,he is incensed now.
They are not really a nice company to work for ,they keep forgetting to pay the employees wages on the right day,this has happened at least 3 times since january ( they get paid monthly ) .
They are constantly behind on paying their suppliers so have to change suppliers all the time until the catch up with paying what they owe.
My husband thinks they will go under sometime this year as they owe money left right and centre.0 -
dizzydotty wrote: »he was having a few problems with his then girlfriend ( he is 19 years old) and his supervisor knew this as they were quite good friends at the time.
On one of the occasions he left early ,he had overheard the 2nd works supervisor talking about him to a co worker complaining about him being on his mobile phone,even though it was lunchtime and they were outside of that buliding .
Being a pig headed teenage lad instead of staying and sorting the issue out,he went home in a huff,although He was pretty upset about it at the time.
Maturity is something that takes a while to grow into, I think a great many of us as teenagers would have acted the same way.
I hope he gets sorted out, and as other posts have said ET's are pretty good at judging when a story or evidence has been fabricated, so if the company try that the judges should see straight through it.0 -
the ONLY matter the tribunal is likely to consider ( I believe!) is whether or not your sons employers acted within the terms of their own disciplinary protocol.
Your son need to request a copy of the company's disciplinary protocol ( I am sure they will have one buried in a cupboard somewhere) and find out if they followed it or not
I believe MOST disciplinary protocols will have a section for 1st verbal warning, 2nd verbal warning, written warning etc
by the sounds of what your son is telling you on the face of it, it seems they probably didn't follow their own protocol and if that is the case, that is ALL you need to argue
don't complicate matters with irrelevancies, such as other employees - the Tribunal will not be interested.0 -
dizzydotty wrote: »No it is a small company consisting of 15 employees ,
I think my husband found it slightly awkward to begin with but since finding out they are telling downright lies,he is incensed now.
They are not really a nice company to work for ,they keep forgetting to pay the employees wages on the right day,this has happened at least 3 times since january ( they get paid monthly ) .
They are constantly behind on paying their suppliers so have to change suppliers all the time until the catch up with paying what they owe.
My husband thinks they will go under sometime this year as they owe money left right and centre.
Maybe they are trying to lighten the load although they could have just made him redundant if he has been there less than 2 years.
Often companies like you have described are the tricky ones to deal with as they don't have dedicated HR personnel and are often run by small business owners who struggle to deal with what is an awful lot of red tape and therefore important procedures end up overlooked.
Maybe an employment tribunal might be enough to force the company to re-evaluate their methods and procedures.
Has your son been able to find new employment?0
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