Won ESA tribunal. What happens next?

Bamber19

Personally I wouldn't advise always asking for a statement of reasons. The reality is that sometimes an award is made but it's been a borderline one and a "soft" tribunal have opted to give the appellant the benefit of the doubt (I'm sure someone will come along and claim that all tribunals are fair and even and stick 100% to the regulations but the reality is, having worked there, that quite often the approach is "Right, we're giving this person the award, let's find the points now" and then awards are made not really one what points are right but on what get you to 15) so asking for a statement of reasons may highlight to the DWP that it was a shakey decision and may make them respond to it far faster in terms of a new medical.

cit_k

Bamber19 wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't advise always asking for a statement of reasons. The reality is that sometimes an award is made but it's been a borderline one and a "soft" tribunal have opted to give the appellant the benefit of the doubt (I'm sure someone will come along and claim that all tribunals are fair and even and stick 100% to the regulations but the reality is, having worked there, that quite often the approach is "Right, we're giving this person the award, let's find the points now" and then awards are made not really one what points are right but on what get you to 15) so asking for a statement of reasons may highlight to the DWP that it was a shakey decision and may make them respond to it far faster in terms of a new medical.

How would the DWP know a statement of reasons had been asked for, as you would be asking the tribunal service for it directly?

Muttleythefrog

Do the DWP get a copy of the tribunal S.O.Rs if appellant requests them?

Bamber19

cit_k wrote: »

How would the DWP know a statement of reasons had been asked for, as you would be asking the tribunal service for it directly?

I never dealt with the Post Tribunal work but i'm pretty sure when a S.O.R is requested it goes out to both parties.

cit_k

Bamber19 wrote: »

I never dealt with the Post Tribunal work but i'm pretty sure when a S.O.R is requested it goes out to both parties.

If thats the case, it clearly shows the DWP nor ATOS have ANY interest in finding out what went wrong at either assessment or decision making stages, as if they were interested they would request a statement of reasons as a matter of course so they could make sure similar misakes are not meant again.

ScottWM

Hi, I don't mean to thread high-jack but i'm in abit of a pickle and I was wondering if anyone had a solution or solid advice?

Basically I suffer from Agoraphobia (anxiety disorder) it more or less confines me to my home on a permanent basis. I went for a medical months and months ago and explained my issues to the examiner (to the point of pointing out I had to get a taxi to the door step of the building the exam was at because I couldn't go out in public due to panic attacks) and the general outlines of the condition.

I was declined shortly after which I was fairly surprised at (it was my first ever medical so I really had no idea what to expect) even more so after I got the medical report recently and read the point marking part.

(For those un-aware what Agoraphobia is i'll post a brief spat of information about the disorder)

"Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder defined as a morbid fear or having a panic attack or panic-like symptoms in a situation that is perceived to be difficult (or embarrassing) from which to escape. These situations can include, but are not limited to, wide-open spaces, crowds, or uncontrolled social conditions. Alternatively, social anxiety problems may also be an underlying cause. As a result, sufferers of agoraphobia avoid public and/or unfamiliar places, especially large, open spaces such as shopping malls or airports from which they cannot easily escape if they have a panic attack. In severe cases, the sufferer may become confined to his or her home, unable to leave their safe haven."

Now, to explain my situation abit more.. I have a big red birthmark on the left side of my face and its having a massive adverse effect on my mental health (it has been for years) ultimately it lead to the Agoraphobia and Depression, I told the examiner this, told her what medication I was taking for it and told her I was currently under-going counselling for it so I very naively assumed she understood.

This is a quote of her medical report (take note of the bottom 3)

Score from mental, cognitive and intellectual functions assessment

Learning and completion of tasks: 0 Points
Awareness of Hazard: 0 Points
Memory and concentration: 0 Points
Execution of tasks: 0 Points
Initiating and sustaining daily activities: 0 Points
Coping with change: 0 Points
Getting about: 0 Points
Coping with social situations: 0 Points
Social interaction: 0 Points
Dealing with other people: 0 Points


Now all that said can anyone offer some solid advice? i've tried appealing the tribunal decision but that was also declined. I did phone welfare rights and all they said was "You can't do anything, the only way they will listen to you is if you apply from the start again with a different illness" and Citizens Advice said they can't do anything because i'm unable to goto their office due to my Agoraphobia as they do not do home visits.

The only positive thing i've managed to do so far is contact social services and explain my situation to them, they said they were going to send me out some forms to fill in for help and they were also going to talk to welfare rights again on my behalf.

cit_k

ScottWM wrote: »

Hi, I don't mean to thread high-jack but i'm in abit of a pickle and I was wondering if anyone had a solution or solid advice?

Basically I suffer from Agoraphobia (anxiety disorder) it more or less confines me to my home on a permanent basis. I went for a medical months and months ago and explained my issues to the examiner (to the point of pointing out I had to get a taxi to the door step of the building the exam was at because I couldn't go out in public due to panic attacks) and the general outlines of the condition.

I was declined shortly after which I was fairly surprised at (it was my first ever medical so I really had no idea what to expect) even more so after I got the medical report recently and read the point marking part.

(For those un-aware what Agoraphobia is i'll post a brief spat of information about the disorder)

"Agoraphobia is an anxiety disorder defined as a morbid fear or having a panic attack or panic-like symptoms in a situation that is perceived to be difficult (or embarrassing) from which to escape. These situations can include, but are not limited to, wide-open spaces, crowds, or uncontrolled social conditions. Alternatively, social anxiety problems may also be an underlying cause. As a result, sufferers of agoraphobia avoid public and/or unfamiliar places, especially large, open spaces such as shopping malls or airports from which they cannot easily escape if they have a panic attack. In severe cases, the sufferer may become confined to his or her home, unable to leave their safe haven."

Now, to explain my situation abit more.. I have a big red birthmark on the left side of my face and its having a massive adverse effect on my mental health (it has been for years) ultimately it lead to the Agoraphobia and Depression, I told the examiner this, told her what medication I was taking for it and told her I was currently under-going counselling for it so I very naively assumed she understood.

This is a quote of her medical report (take note of the bottom 3)

Score from mental, cognitive and intellectual functions assessment

Learning and completion of tasks: 0 Points
Awareness of Hazard: 0 Points
Memory and concentration: 0 Points
Execution of tasks: 0 Points
Initiating and sustaining daily activities: 0 Points
Coping with change: 0 Points
Getting about: 0 Points
Coping with social situations: 0 Points
Social interaction: 0 Points
Dealing with other people: 0 Points


Now all that said can anyone offer some solid advice? i've tried appealing the tribunal decision but that was also declined. I did phone welfare rights and all they said was "You can't do anything, the only way they will listen to you is if you apply from the start again with a different illness" and Citizens Advice said they can't do anything because i'm unable to goto their office due to my Agoraphobia as they do not do home visits.

The only positive thing i've managed to do so far is contact social services and explain my situation to them, they said they were going to send me out some forms to fill in for help and they were also going to talk to welfare rights again on my behalf.

How long ago did you get the notification you had failed, you normally get one month to appeal.

Muttleythefrog

ScottWM wrote: »

Now all that said can anyone offer some solid advice? i've tried appealing the tribunal decision but that was also declined. I did phone welfare rights and all they said was "You can't do anything, the only way they will listen to you is if you apply from the start again with a different illness" and Citizens Advice said they can't do anything because i'm unable to goto their office due to my Agoraphobia as they do not do home visits.

The only positive thing i've managed to do so far is contact social services and explain my situation to them, they said they were going to send me out some forms to fill in for help and they were also going to talk to welfare rights again on my behalf.

The scoring zero points with MH problems is far from uncommon as you're probably aware. But it's disappointing you lost in appeal where many are able to overturn this decision (did you attend? If not then chances were probably badly impacted).

Hopefully social services can get things moving for you. But I think you may have been given slightly deficient advice. The 'applying again with a different or new illness (or significant change in historic)' was probably mentioned because there is a 6 month waiting time from failed application to a new one being accepted. However this 6 months can be ignored if that in inverted commas applies. But in your case you appealed... now appeals are taking significant time often to be heard. I'm wondering if you have had 6 months elapsed since you were turned down by the DWP (failed the WCA). If so I'd be tempted to re-apply, it is my understanding that you would be able to, and use as best you can any advice and support available to make a better application/get evidence (supporting medical evidence may be invaluable to you).

ScottWM

cit_k wrote: »

How long ago did you get the notification you had failed, you normally get one month to appeal.

It was a few months ago but I did appeal when it was declined i've been waiting about 2-3 months for word about the new appeal I submitted which was also declined. The forms I have in my hands now (saying the newer appeal was declined) is dated the 12th of july, this is the second appeal tho I don't think I can do a third.

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

The scoring zero points with MH problems is far from uncommon as you're probably aware. But it's disappointing you lost in appeal where many are able to overturn this decision (did you attend? If not then chances were probably badly impacted).

Hopefully social services can get things moving for you. But I think you may have been given slightly deficient advice. The 'applying again with a different or new illness (or significant change in historic)' was probably mentioned because there is a 6 month waiting time from failed application to a new one being accepted. However this 6 months can be ignored if that in inverted commas applies. But in your case you appealed... now appeals are taking significant time often to be heard. I'm wondering if you have had 6 months elapsed since you were turned down by the DWP (failed the WCA). If so I'd be tempted to re-apply, it is my understanding that you would be able to, and use as best you can any advice and support available to make a better application/get evidence (supporting medical evidence may be invaluable to you).

I didnt attend the Tribunal no, it was some distance from my home and I was unable to attend it. The only reason I went to the medical is because its in my local town and I was able to get a taxi literally to the door step avoiding places that may cause panic attacks.

Muttleythefrog

ScottWM wrote: »

It was a few months ago but I did appeal when it was declined i've been waiting about 2-3 months for word about the new appeal I submitted which was also declined. The forms I have in my hands now (saying the newer appeal was declined) is dated the 12th of july, this is the second appeal tho I don't think I can do a third.

I didnt attend the Tribunal no, it was some distance from my home and I was unable to attend it. The only reason I went to the medical is because its in my local town and I was able to get a taxi literally to the door step avoiding places that may cause panic attacks.

The 'new appeal' won't be an appeal like the first... it'll be only on a claim of error in law made by the tribunal (i.e. you're effectively asking the tribunals service to quash the tribunal because it didn't apply the law properly). You can win such appeals (to upper tier tribunal) and they may order a new tribunal but it's probably always worth expecting they will be lost... since you'd have to show there was an error in law made by the lower tier tribunal. What has the latest tribunal decision said?

Attending tribunal is a massive bonus... hard I'd expect given your condition... but that in itself may prove compelling. Without representation at tribunal, statistics suggest this type of appeal is of low chance of success. Maybe you had a representative there I don't know... if you appealed the tribunal decision then I presume you do/did have legal representation of some sort at least in the background.

But I suspect you're almost at a point in time, or have reached the point in time, where 6 months has elapsed and you can re-apply. I'd do that when you legally can... and if appeal is needed do everything you can to attend in person. I'd definitely look at getting medical evidence to support your claim if possible... anyone involved in your care/treatment could prove useful. Even appointment letters with mental health professionals can help - it confirms you have some problem that needs assessing or treating.