Please read if dealing with a self-employed NRP!

clearingout

PreludeForTimeFeelers wrote: »

The onus is then put on the PWC to prove it, and for all she knows the NRP may be being supported by family or friends, may have savings or may be getting further and further into debt - how could she prove he'd submitted fraudulent returns which had been investigated by HMRC? The agreements between HMRC and the Csa should mean that if there IS fraud going on then they notify Csa of their findings.

the lack of the communication between Government agencies is one of the things that needs to be improved in this situation, without a doubt.

PreludeForTimeFeelers

clearingout wrote: »

the lack of the communication between Government agencies is one of the things that needs to be improved in this situation, without a doubt.

I'm being assured that 'future scheme' CSA does involve greater linking up, but I'll not hold my breath to be honest.

karenx

My sons NRP is self employed. He went self employed after a DEO was going on his wages when he was employed and didnt want to pay me. He goes on about 4 holidays a year, his next is Ibiza next week for 2 weeks. He has 3 cars worth about 20k of which he has no loans for they were all paid in full. Plus he is a pro sports player getting paid also.
He still tells CSA he earns nothing at all. If he did how can he afford mortgage payments, insurance, petrol, road tax, holidays, nights out every week etc. His lifestyle is totally inconsistent with what he claims he earns - ie ZERO wages. Its totally ridiculous how he can get away with this. He seems to know every trick going as to avoid payment. He claims his business is running at a loss. But say his mortgage is £500 a month, all other bills inc insurance for cars is £300, where is this 9.6k coming from a year for bills? Makes no sence to anybody yet nothing can be done to make him pay! I have wrote to my MP and awaiting a reply.
Self employed NRP should be given a figure to pay even if their books show low income.

Sidekick_2

karenx wrote: »

My sons NRP is self employed. He went self employed after a DEO was going on his wages when he was employed and didnt want to pay me. He goes on about 4 holidays a year, his next is Ibiza next week for 2 weeks. He has 3 cars worth about 20k of which he has no loans for they were all paid in full. Plus he is a pro sports player getting paid also.
He still tells CSA he earns nothing at all. If he did how can he afford mortgage payments, insurance, petrol, road tax, holidays, nights out every week etc. His lifestyle is totally inconsistent with what he claims he earns - ie ZERO wages. Its totally ridiculous how he can get away with this. He seems to know every trick going as to avoid payment. He claims his business is running at a loss. But say his mortgage is £500 a month, all other bills inc insurance for cars is £300, where is this 9.6k coming from a year for bills? Makes no sence to anybody yet nothing can be done to make him pay! I have wrote to my MP and awaiting a reply.
Self employed NRP should be given a figure to pay even if their books show low income.

"His lifestyle is totally inconsistent with what he claims he earns"

This would be the case for a departure.
Collect all your evidence and apply for a departure, if the csa refuse, appeal the decision. Take your appeal to an independent tribunal, it would be at this stage that the NRP would be requested to justify his life-style. The onus would be on him to disprove your claims.

So something can be done if you pursue it, writing to your MP will not change his assessment.

clearingout

Sidekick wrote: »

"His lifestyle is totally inconsistent with what he claims he earns"

This would be the case for a departure.
Collect all your evidence and apply for a departure, if the csa refuse, appeal the decision. Take your appeal to an independent tribunal, it would be at this stage that the NRP would be requested to justify his life-style. The onus would be on him to disprove your claims.

So something can be done if you pursue it, writing to your MP will not change his assessment.

I agree with this. The issue is getting that 'evidence' that will satisfy the CSA/tribunal service or anyone else. And for those of us who live at a distance from our ex's, knowing what they're up to and what kind of life they lead is impossible so we're left with a £0 assessment? It is these issues that the CSA should be providing solutions to - or rather, a statutory scheme, backed up by the Law, should be providing these solutions. Maria Miller wrote a long letter to my MP stating that the new scheme would ensure that PWC get maintenance payments quickly. How on earth is having to prove your ex has a lifestyle inconsistent with their income 'quick'?!!! I'm over 2 years and counting and I know there are many here with far longer tales to tell!

JamesP1976

PreludeForTimeFeelers wrote: »

The onus is then put on the PWC to prove it,

I had this several years ago as an NRP.

The CSA has a procedure which I saw in a document they were holding, and it went something like this OTOH.

1. Do bank trace on NRP name and DOB.

2. Does NRP have a bank account with large balances or large value transactions? if no then:

3. Does NRP havea credit card with large balances or large value transactions? if no then:

4. Do DVLA check: does NRP have high value vehicles? if no then:

5 Do Land Registry check: does NRP own land?: of no then:

Ask PWC for supporting evidence if lifestyle.

Ambera_2

karenx wrote: »

Self employed NRP should be given a figure to pay even if their books show low income.

Granted that people self employed can get away with some things and your case sounds horrendous.

However in the case of the csa there are always 2 sides to being self employed or employed via a ltd company.

Often s/e people do not get paid, employers that give them work go bust or pay on 30 day of 60 day or even longer terms.

Working as self employed sometimes means you are way below the breadline. You cant take holidays because you lose work. You dont take days off sick cos you dont get paid.

For those with fantastic lifestyles, there's tax or criminal investigations that deal with that. Yours seems to fit that category. However dont forget even here there's two sides to this coin.

What about PWC who have partners earning huge wages and declining access to children yet forcing NRP into poverty or hardship too?

A set figure for all s/e people is indiscriminate and can't happen.

The CSA punish those that are soft targets, no different to other organisations.

mspa

Ambera wrote: »

Granted that people self employed can get away with some things and your case sounds horrendous.

However in the case of the csa there are always 2 sides to being self employed or employed via a ltd company.

Often s/e people do not get paid, employers that give them work go bust or pay on 30 day of 60 day or even longer terms.

Working as self employed sometimes means you are way below the breadline. You cant take holidays because you lose work. You dont take days off sick cos you dont get paid.

For those with fantastic lifestyles, there's tax or criminal investigations that deal with that. Yours seems to fit that category. However dont forget even here there's two sides to this coin.

What about PWC who have partners earning huge wages and declining access to children yet forcing NRP into poverty or hardship too?

A set figure for all s/e people is indiscriminate and can't happen.

The CSA punish those that are soft targets, no different to other organisations.

I agree, I am a PWC and a NRPP I had my own business a few years ago and I was always the last to be paid and very often didnt. People asumed I was rolling in it, Ive no idea why. I didnt have a car, didnt go on holiday and very rarely had a night out. I'm sure all the complaints are correct but I agree you cannot set a figure for all self employed/business owners.

clearingout

Ambera wrote: »

For those with fantastic lifestyles, there's tax or criminal investigations that deal with that. Yours seems to fit that category. However dont forget even here there's two sides to this coin.

What about PWC who have partners earning huge wages and declining access to children yet forcing NRP into poverty or hardship too?

A set figure for all s/e people is indiscriminate and can't happen.

The CSA punish those that are soft targets, no different to other organisations.

My intention was not to get into an argument about the rights and wrongs of maintenance and contact, nor to suggest that the self employed don't work hard or have problems with cash flow which impacts on their ability to pay maintenance. I am asking for examples of problems in getting maintenance from those who are self employed where an ex is reluctant to pay anything at all. Like many people here, I receive nothing at all - no contribution towards school uniforms, school trips, hair cuts etc. Nothing. My ex would be quite happy to stand on my doorstep, tell me he's off for 4 weeks to Barbados next week and don't you feel embaressed sending your child to school in those shoes he needs new ones....

Anyway. As Preludeforfeelers points out above, even if we could get the powers that be to investigate possible tax fraud etc.etc. that information isn't relayed to the CSA and an assessment isn't updated accordingly. So it makes no difference whatsoever. And then we're in the uncomfortable position of being the people who possibly send our ex's to prison, get them criminal records (which would mean my ex would never work again the field he's in) or put them in a position whereby they're spending every penny on paying back tax and can't pay maintenance even if they wanted to. Not to mention having two parents so suspicious of each other that there is no relationship whatsoever. Not good for the children, is it?

As for PWC who have new partners who earn huge wages (or even average wages), what business is it of a new partner to contribute towards someone else's child's upbringing? Of course they take on the parent, they take on the child, but that doesn't give some kind of free pass to the NRP from financially supporting their children, does it? I do recognise that maintenance can push some NRPs into poverty. But equally, the lack of maintenance keeps many more children in poverty. Unfortunately, two wrongs won't make a right.

jaidenslot

My sons NRP is self employed and was on CSA 1. It finished last year as my sons 20 now and for 16 years i got £4.80 and the first 2 £5.40. He resorted to everything to get it reduced, at first he had my son every weekend and on a week night and when he realised his maintenance wouldn't be reduced it went to one day a fortnight and then monthly until it stopped alltogether when my son was 13.
Bought a house and left it stood empty and he lived on his land which was in his fathers name. Paid himself minimal wages. While i struggled he had holidays abroad, nice car etc. I asked for a review after 2 years of £5.40 and it was reduced to £4.80. Begged him for a pair of shoes for my son once and was told "what do i pay my maintenance for"
Apart from the shoes i neve asked for a thing and always allowed contact when he wanted but his work was always more important and he never had the time in the end to see his son!