LL Charging Daily Interest & Late Fees - Please help!

jjlandlord

jimjames wrote: »

Sounds like there are 2 possibilities - either LL is totally clueless and has no idea that 4.5% is an annual rate or is deliberately overcharging. I would tend to think it is the first option as even loan sharks wouldn't use a rate of 950 million percent!!

I agree.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

neverdespairgirl

I'm not sure the clause is fair - it looks like a penalty clause, to me,

Leaving that to one side, for the moment, you need to take the firmest of lines with this woman. You are living in your own home in fear of the postman! That's crap.

Of course you do need to pay your rent ASAP, and make it a priority. I'm sure you know that already. You seem to.

Then write a letter to your LL. Don't send it recorded, send it first class from 2 different Post Offices, and get proof of postage for each one. Keep it formal and icily polite. You don't have to put up with this behaviour. I'd write something like this:

Dear Landlady,

Re: tenancy agreement at 30 Acacia Avenue.

I am aware that I am in arrears with my rent. This was caused by a mistake by the tax credits system, and will be rectified as soon as possible.

When the problem first occured, I notified you immediately, and I've kept you up-to-date. I appreciate you want the rent payable under the AST signed on 19th March 2011, and the rent owed will be paid as soon as possible.

However, your behaviour in response to this is unacceptable. You are purporting to charge late payment fees and astonishing amounts of interest. You may not calculate late payment "penalty" fees "and interest" payments in this manner, no matter what is written in a tenancy agreement. The "late payment" fee is a penalty clause in the contract, and unenforceable. The interest you are trying to add is not in the tenancy agreement, and represents a ludicrous amount of money. You statement in your last letter that any payments made by me will be credited to the arrears and interest in date order is unenforceable and unlawful.

Further, I consider that your constant letters, demands for amounts of money to which you are not and never will be entitled, and overall behaviour since I have been your tenant amounts to serious harrassment of me under the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 (as amended):

1 Prohibition of harassment

(1)A person must not pursue a course of conduct—

(a)which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b)which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2)For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

3 Civil remedy

(1)An actual or apprehended breach of section 1 may be the subject of a claim in civil proceedings by the person who is or may be the victim of the course of conduct in question.

(2)On such a claim, damages may be awarded for (among other things) any anxiety caused by the harassment and any financial loss resulting from the harassment.

Your behaviour is causing me alarm and distress. It must stop forthwith. I write therefore to insist that you cease to demand sums of money to which you are not entitled, cease to make vague threats of misrepresentation, criminal activities, and all the other and varying matters to which you have subjected me.

Yours sincerely,

!!!!ed-off tenant

dangermummy

Thanks so much for all of your help on this!

tbs624 - Thanks so much for highlighting the appropriate sections of the OFT guidlines, this save me an age of time! I had downloaded the document and was ploughing through it. Strange how they are so keen on clear and precise wording in TA yet that document can certianly not be described as such!

I also contacted Shelter (around 5 min waiting time so not too bad!) who were helpful in confirming that a) the penalty charge of £35 was likely to be unfair and the interest charge was frankly ridiculous.

The interest rate she is charging equates to to 1642.5% per annum! If that is 4% above BOE base rate then mortgage payment are about to go through the roof!

neverdespairgirl - thanks very much for your post, a very useful template, especially in regard to the harrassment laws! This is not the first time she has harrassed for monies to which she is not entitled; when the LA that initially handled the tenancy 'vanished' she tried to charge me for a full rental period that had been paid. When I gave her receipts for the same, she then went on to insist that I provide 3 months of receipts as the 'Official Receivers' had requested them. I was able to provide all but one for £160.00, and she threatened me almost daily in regard to paying it. I repeatedly asked for the details of the 'Official Receivers' (I knew who they were, I had downloaded the liquidation reports from Companies House) as I suspected she was being bendy with the truth. She informed me that 'she had askd permission from the Official Receivers to pass on their details but as I was not a creditor, they had specifically asked her not to'. This letter confirmed my suspicions that she was lying through her teeth and when challenged she suddenly went quiet on demanding the £160.00. However, on her last statement she has decided to add this charge again to the rent statement, claiming 'I have conducted my own investigations and conclude you do in fact owe this'. Dangerous ground lady. I've now written to the liquidators asking them to confirm certain claims in her correspondence so I can have written back-up as to the mistruth in her claims. Some lies require no additional proof, the claim about not passing on details is clearly untrue. Also, she had laimed to have been in touch with and had meetings with the 'Official Receivers' weeks before a liquidator was even appointed. A further letter from the accountants is a nice double whammy when hitting her with the facts though :-)

The lengths this woman will go to in an attempt to appear threatening and forebodeing is incredible. This is her first let (she bought the house we were originally letting, and in turn we agreed to rent her house which was literally around the corner) and she acts as is she has a vast empire, we call her Miss Trump in our house. Luckily, I am quite savvy, have good correspondence skills and the experience and knowledge to be able to question what she claims and not be intimidated. Whilst this is the case, I have been driven to sleepless nights over her repeated harrassment, and so I dread to think how she would affect someone who was not aware of their rights, and didn't know that the LL's word is not necessarily final. She could seriously intimidate someone into paying a lot of money to which she could not be entitled, and that makes me madder than hell. I may be free of her completely come September, but I really feel bad for the poor soul that rents her house in future. I'm not sure if there's much i can do in this regard, but I'd feel sick if I knew there was a vunerable or uninformed person, a single mother, etc who was being scared by her tactics.

I shall be writing two letters today to address her claims, and give her a chance to admit her mistakes and not attempt to bulldoze ahead with her claims regardless in the hope that i will cave in. Unfortunately, past experience states that once she has been caught out, she tends to shout louder rathr than back down, so we shall see! I shall let you all know!!

Many, many thanks once again!!

dangermummy

Soot2006 wrote: »

Pay your rent. + her 4.5% ANNUAL interest on arrears.
Count previous additional monies paid as rent. Don't engage with her. Keep letters, keep everything. Don't answer the phone to her. Pay your rent full up, always and on time as soon as you've cleared your arrears. Move out before your fixed term ends. Sit back and let her try to take you to court. Provide evidence of harassment to police if she doesn't back off.

Love this staright to the point approach, and luckily it's the one I've adopted since the day after signing that damned TA. She initially couldn't understand why I wouldn't deal with her over the phone, but has finally come to understand that her calls will not be answered, even if she does withold her number! I am writing to her to point out her errors and ask she amend her rent statements accordingly. We shall see if she adheres or if she punches out. I fear the latter, but she'll be digging her own hole, so either way will be fine with me!

dangermummy

jjlandlord wrote: »

I agree.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

Fantastic quote! Whilst she may be proven wrong and accept that she read the clause incorrectly through gritted teeth, I think in an attempt to not look stupid she will actually try to continue pushing this. Which will obviously push her from stupidity to malice :-)

missile

You need to give priority to keeping a roof over your family.

You have financial difficulties but these are not your LLs problem. Whilst some LL may sympathise, few will be prepared to let rent arears build up.

You may think she is the LL from hell, but if she serves a section 21 and you are evicted you may find it hard to get accomodation and wish you had made more of an effort to see things from her point of view.

SAMMYE_2

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

I'm not sure the clause is fair - it looks like a penalty clause, to me,

Leaving that to one side, for the moment, you need to take the firmest of lines with this woman. You are living in your own home in fear of the postman! That's crap.

Of course you do need to pay your rent ASAP, and make it a priority. I'm sure you know that already. You seem to.

Then write a letter to your LL. Don't send it recorded, send it first class from 2 different Post Offices, and get proof of postage for each one. Keep it formal and icily polite. You don't have to put up with this behaviour. I'd write something like this:

Dear Landlady,

Re: tenancy agreement at 30 Acacia Avenue.

I am aware that I am in arrears with my rent. This was caused by a mistake by the tax credits system, and will be rectified as soon as possible.

When the problem first occured, I notified you immediately, and I've kept you up-to-date. I appreciate you want the rent payable under the AST signed on 19th March 2011, and the rent owed will be paid as soon as possible.

However, your behaviour in response to this is unacceptable. You are purporting to charge late payment fees and astonishing amounts of interest. You may not calculate late payment "penalty" fees "and interest" payments in this manner, no matter what is written in a tenancy agreement. The "late payment" fee is a penalty clause in the contract, and unenforceable. The interest you are trying to add is not in the tenancy agreement, and represents a ludicrous amount of money. You statement in your last letter that any payments made by me will be credited to the arrears and interest in date order is unenforceable and unlawful.

Further, I consider that your constant letters, demands for amounts of money to which you are not and never will be entitled, and overall behaviour since I have been your tenant amounts to serious harrassment of me under the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 (as amended):

1 Prohibition of harassment

(1)A person must not pursue a course of conduct—

(a)which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b)which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2)For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

3 Civil remedy

(1)An actual or apprehended breach of section 1 may be the subject of a claim in civil proceedings by the person who is or may be the victim of the course of conduct in question.

(2)On such a claim, damages may be awarded for (among other things) any anxiety caused by the harassment and any financial loss resulting from the harassment.

Your behaviour is causing me alarm and distress. It must stop forthwith. I write therefore to insist that you cease to demand sums of money to which you are not entitled, cease to make vague threats of misrepresentation, criminal activities, and all the other and varying matters to which you have subjected me.

Yours sincerely,

!!!!ed-off tenant

NDG you are GOOD! VERY GOOD!!!

dangermummy

missile wrote: »

You need to give priority to keeping a roof over your family.

You have financial difficulties but these are not your LLs problem. Whilst some LL may sympathise, few will be prepared to let rent arears build up.

You may think she is the LL from hell, but if she serves a section 21 and you are evicted you may find it hard to get accomodation and wish you had made more of an effort to see things from her point of view.

That is my ABSOLUTE priority, I want to pay my rent and whilst I am awaiting my backpayment from tax credits, I am beg, stealing and borrowing to make payments to my LL. She has served a section 21, but as the fixed term does not end until Sep, this was the earliest date you could request eviction under the notice. I am doing everything in my power to pay her in order that I am not served a section 8 or section notice in order to protect my family.

I also understand that she has bills to cover, and that the money outstanding is HER money. I have been apologetic and sypathetic to this, and understand that she wants her payments. However, I object to being charged unfairly, to have interest rates of over 1600% applied to my arrears, and to be bullied and harrassed for monies which I do not owe. That is unacceptabel, particularly when I have been in constant contact regarding my situation, and am clearly trying to pay monies owed, and not just sitting ignoring rental payment requests. I am not that kind of person, i am just experiencing a time of hardship through an error that was not caused by me and that will be rectified. Going after money owed is one thing, making obsene amounts from charges and interests is quite another!

neverdespairgirl

missile wrote: »

You need to give priority to keeping a roof over your family.

You have financial difficulties but these are not your LLs problem. Whilst some LL may sympathise, few will be prepared to let rent arears build up.

You may think she is the LL from hell, but if she serves a section 21 and you are evicted you may find it hard to get accomodation and wish you had made more of an effort to see things from her point of view.

I don't think the OP is expecting sympathy from the landlady.

She's just expecting the landlady to stick to the law, and not to lie, harrass and cause trouble.

neverdespairgirl

SAMMYE wrote: »

NDG you are GOOD! VERY GOOD!!!

Thanks! :beer: