Successfully got refund from dentist

neilp2000

I went to a new dentist for the first time, and he was obviously keen to rush me through the appointment. I'm guessing the more NHS patients they see in an hour, the more money they make. I hadn't seen a dentist in 2 years due to travelling and house move, so I wasn't surprised when he asked me to come back for a full clean and polish. After the second appointment (which was 5 mins long, as was the first) he charged me an extra £30 on top of the initial £17. He said the clean and polish counted as a Band 2 treatment. I couldn't query it at the time, but when I checked online. I realised that only a Deap Clean is Band 2 (I had to google it to check).

I was mightily annoyed, so wrote to the dental surgery. They wrote back within 2 weeks and refunded the £30!!!

I am very pleased, but I wonder how many other people get ripped off by this or other dentists. I'm not going to name or shame the dentist, but I highly recommend you keep an eye on what you get charged for.

Toothsmith

Judging from what you've said, the dentist was probably right to charge the Band 2 fee.

I think you got the refund because £30 was a lot less trouble than fighting a complaint, even if he was in the right. That's probably what I'd do if I was still in that silly system - but then I would use the letter as evidence of a 'breakdown of patient/dentist relationship' and make sure you weren't booked in again.

You're wrong about "The more people they see, the more money they earn".

NHS dentistry is now prvided on fixed contract with the dentist. - But if they don't see enough people, then the contract value will be reduced the next year. If they see too many, there is no extra money.

I would guess you'll be looking for a different dentist now then?

neilp2000

Toothsmith wrote: »

Judging from what you've said, the dentist was probably right to charge the Band 2 fee.

What makes you say that? Clean and polish is a Band 1 service (as per the NHS website - sorry I can't post a link as I'm a new user of this forum), and I have only ever been charged the £17 for that at several other dentists.

Toothsmith

If it had been a couple of years since you'd been in, and he actually brought you back for a seperate appointment to do it, rather than just going round after the check-up, then the charge might be justified.

It is quite a grey area though.

But refunding £30 is ALWAYS easier than making a fight of it. Even if you're right.

welshdent

From what you said, I am with toothsmith. As an NHS dentist it seems to me you have been treated entirely within the bounds of the NHS agreement. Just because they CALLED it a scale and polish doesnt mean it was one. Perhaps they should have phrased it better but when you get in to seeing many people a day (NOT for more money!) the majority of the people you see do not appreciate the difference. Band 2 is non surgical management of periodontal disease. If it was deemed necessary to bring you back for an additional appointment then you probably needed that. I wouldnt be surprised if the dentist is "full to capacity" the next time you call seeing as there is no registration so no obligation to see you. As toothsmith said, it was probably easier to hand money back to quieten you down but it doesnt mean you were in the right.

neilp2000

welshdent wrote: »

From what you said, I am with toothsmith. As an NHS dentist it seems to me you have been treated entirely within the bounds of the NHS agreement. Just because they CALLED it a scale and polish doesnt mean it was one. Perhaps they should have phrased it better but when you get in to seeing many people a day (NOT for more money!) the majority of the people you see do not appreciate the difference. Band 2 is non surgical management of periodontal disease. If it was deemed necessary to bring you back for an additional appointment then you probably needed that. I wouldnt be surprised if the dentist is "full to capacity" the next time you call seeing as there is no registration so no obligation to see you. As toothsmith said, it was probably easier to hand money back to quieten you down but it doesnt mean you were in the right.

I think my main area for concern was that the two appointments, in total, lasted half the time I am normally in with a dentist. I felt completely rushed, and was not even offered a "rinse and spit". To then be charged the extra, which previous dentists have never done, left me feeling a bit miffed.

welshdent

Neil_Partridge wrote: »

I think my main area for concern was that the two appointments, in total, lasted half the time I am normally in with a dentist. I felt completely rushed, and was not even offered a "rinse and spit". To then be charged the extra, which previous dentists have never done, left me feeling a bit miffed.

The problem is neil, it doesnt matter how long the treatment takes, The NHS stipulates what can and can not be charged for and it stipulates what must be provided. No Account is taken of time taken. It is a little unfair to say they charged extra which others did not do. You said yourself you had not been in for some time. The diagnosis of what you required is likely to have been a lot different now than it was. Certainly the amount of calculus you can develop can be significantly different. Not only that dentists are individuals and they will each view things differently. I work at 2 practices and one is very big on gum disease treatment being band 2 and the other has not been so much that and claimed it as band 1 (until I started!!). As long as it can be justified, a band 2 is perfectly reasonable where there is evidence of gum disease and or large amounts of calculus.

I often see the "I was only in the chair 2 minutes" complaint frequently. When a dentist sees you they have no idea what is in your mouth. You book an appointment but until they see you they do not know what your requirements are. If someone was to attend and genuinely not need anything is the dentist meant to keep you in the chair longer just to make it look like something is being done?

As toothsmith and myself have said, they probably just thought it was easier to pay you off in effect rather than have added hassle.

j.e.j.

If your first appointment was also just 5 minutes did they have time to check your teeth and do x-rays, etc?

It took me a long time but eventually i did find an nhs dentist where i don't feel i am just on a conveyor belt, in and out of the appointment within 2 minutes. One of them didn't even notice i had a wisdom tooth poking thru the gum! When I pointed it out to him, he looked again and just said disinterestedly "oh, yeah..."

It's also interesting that the 'dentists' on here feel the surgery you went to would be quite right to 'punish' you by not seeing you again..

brook2jack

Is it a "punishment" not to be seen again if you feel you have been overcharged. if you don't trust your dentists charging then how can you possibly trust their clinical judgement?
From the dentists point of view if the patient doesn't trust what you think is a legitimate charge then they have lost trust in you and you will practice ever more defensively and so if that relationship has broken down it is not in anyones interest to continue.

MaggieBaking

My friend is an NHS dentist and had her confidence knocked by people not trusting her because they think she just wants the cash out of them. As other people have commented their pay isn't as simple as £25 in the pocket for every clean and polish.

I'm glad the dentist was busy, I certainly can't find an NHS dentist round here, even our local private clinic stopped adding to the queue for new patients 2 years ago :eek: I'd hate to think that the NHS practices weren't trying to fit in as many patients as possible.

Ultimately, the relationship between dentist and patient is important, if you don't trust your dentist you wont be happy and if they don't trust you they can't give you the best medical care. A lot of the work is subjective.

Dentists work very hard, train very hard and spend many years at university, it'd be wise to trust their opinion. It's unfortunate that the new way of practising NHS dentistry encourages such misunderstandings.

welshdent

j.e.j. wrote: »

It's also interesting that the 'dentists' on here feel the surgery you went to would be quite right to 'punish' you by not seeing you again..

What is interesting to me is your choice of language. Who said punish?? Certainly not me. However put yourself in the dentists shoes.
You legitimately charge the appropriate NHS charge for work you feel was necessary and that you carried out. No sign of mixing or making the patient pay for a private scale and polish as per the other thread.
Despite this the patient doesnt like it because "no one else ever made them pay that much for just a scrape and polish" and "I dont think they spent long enough with me to justify it anyway". To avoid potentially hours of hassle phoning defense companies, responding to queries from PCTs and all the rest of the major inconvenience involved you are advised to just hand them some money back - do you really think there still can be a good relationship based on trust there??
Only today I had someone making a massive fuss because they highly resented paying £12. Despite it being them that booked an appointment off their own back, despite them massively exaggerating the problem to reception to make sure they were seen ... despite there being no other possible NHS charge that can be made ... they still felt it a disgrace that I would dare charge the £12 when all I did was polish a tooth. Now lets ignore that I provided a cosmetic cleaning for nothing for them. Ignore they were only in as a new patient 2 months ago. They just resented paying full stop. you cant win sometimes.