Councillors make move to scrap second home council tax discount

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

I'm not trying to tell you it isn't fair. I'm suggesting that Cornwall's economy would be better served by a council that was looking to encourage visitors to part with more money during their time there.

Hang on.

Two different things.

Tourism and Second Home Ownership need to be seperated.

Cornwall already encourages visitors, and always has done. It even hosts stuff like run to the sun. So to say they should be looking at encouraging visitors is a little off the mark, as thats already done, constantly.

Second home ownership however, most councillors agree, something needs to be done to discourage it. Second home ownership is not tourism per se. Its wealthy people using local housing as an investment vehicle.

You state that asking them to pay 10% more council tax, to bring it to the full tax bill will discourage them. I find this claim hard to beleive. They removed the 50% discount and second home ownership has gone up since. So I don't think you really understand fully what you are talking about.

The extra money would be spent, apparently, though feel free to argue this as I too feel it would simply be swallowed up, on social housing. Something Cornwall actually has made headwinds into....just not anythign ear enough to fulfill the need.

As you have now said you plan to be a second home owner in cornwall, I can see where you personally are coming from. Just don't pretend you would be helping the local economy.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Tourism and Second Home Ownership need to be seperated.

Cornwall already encourages visitors, and always has done. It even hosts stuff like run to the sun. So to say they should be looking at encouraging visitors is a little off the mark, as thats already done, constantly.

Second home ownership however, most councillors agree, something needs to be done to discourage it. Second home ownership is not tourism per se. Its wealthy people using local housing as an investment vehicle.

You state that asking them to pay 10% more council tax, to bring it to the full tax bill will discourage them. I find this claim hard to beleive. They removed the 50% discount and second home ownership has gone up since. So I don't think you really understand fully what you are talking about.

The extra money would be spent, apparently, though feel free to argue this as I too feel it would simply be swallowed up, on social housing. Something Cornwall actually has made headwinds into....just not anythign ear enough to fulfill the need.

As you have now said you plan to be a second home owner in cornwall, I can see where you personally are coming from. Just don't pretend you would be helping the local economy.

I didn't say that Cornwall doesn't try and attract visitors. I said they need to find better ways of extracting cash from them. Run to the Sun is a good example - drag a load of young people to Newquay. Half the shops board up for the weekend, A&E's packed and the police do a load of overtime. I'd suggest their spend is actually very low - chips and beer (and car parking).

I also didn't say that removing the 10% would discourage ownership. I said that increasing taxes provides a disincentive (whether that's good or bad). I doubt this incentive is big enough on it's own to make a difference but it sheds light on the council's attitude.

I wasn't pretending that I would be helping the local economy or otherwise by owning a second home. As I've said a few times Cornwall needs to be more creative about increasing visitor spend otherwise people will just continue to come down to their second home having done a shop at their local Tesco's and spend nothing.

wotsthat

d.ross wrote: »

Well maybe this is a sneaky way of getting rid of second home owners who are tight with their money, and replacing them with people who have loads of money to spend, and don't mind losing the council tax discount. Therefore a boost to the local economy.

If only Cornwall County Council were that sophisticated.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

I didn't say that Cornwall doesn't try and attract visitors. I said they need to find better ways of extracting cash from them. Run to the Sun is a good example - drag a load of young people to Newquay. Half the shops board up for the weekend, A&E's packed and the police do a load of overtime. I'd suggest their spend is actually very low - chips and beer (and car parking).

I also didn't say that removing the 10% would discourage ownership. I said that increasing taxes provides a disincentive (whether that's good or bad). I doubt this incentive is big enough on it's own to make a difference but it sheds light on the council's attitude.

I wasn't pretending that I would be helping the local economy or otherwise by owning a second home. As I've said a few times Cornwall needs to be more creative about increasing visitor spend otherwise people will just continue to come down to their second home having done a shop at their local Tesco's and spend nothing.

I'm not really sure what you are suggesting then.

Just seem to be going around in circles.

You are now even suggesting run to the sun isn't extracting money. Thats after suggesting increasing taxes would discourage visitors (when no ones talking about increasing taxes in general).

You simply seem to be agreeing, but not agreeing, and giving vague references to cornwall extracting more money from visitors, but poo poo'ing the money extracted (your first post on here) when they do come up with suggestions.

You say they need to do more to attract visitors, but put down what they already do, as not enough.

In all honesty, I don't think you have a clue what you are saying anymore.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

You are now even suggesting run to the sun isn't extracting money.

What WOULD be, in your view!? Were off on a tangent now though I believe.

You simply seem to be agreeing, but not agreeing, and giving vague references to cornwall extracting more money from visitors, but poo poo'ing the money extracted (your first post on here) when they do come up with suggestions.

You say they need to do more to attract visitors, but put down what they already do, as not enough.

In all honesty, I don't think you have a clue what you are saying anymore.

Graham, you're making it up as you go along now.

For someone that hits the 'flounce' button whenever you think words are being put into your mouth you don't half mind doing the same thing.

I didn't say RTTS didn't extract money from visitors. Nor am I putting it down - it's fun to see all the VW Campers 'parked' on the hard shoulder of the M5. I'm suggesting that Cornwall should be moving upmarket to attract a higher spend.

Take a look at Hayle. It, arguably, has the best beach, in the UK. Then take a look at the town. Most of the harbourside area is derelict, the harbour wall has fallen down, there are limited places to eat, there's inadequate parking, no toilets etc. etc. This can't be blamed on second home owners - no-one would buy a second home there. It's the fault of a council that has lacked vision for many many years.

FTBFun

wotsthat wrote: »

Take a look at Hayle. It, arguably, has the best beach, in the UK. Then take a look at the town. Most of the harbourside area is derelict, the harbour wall has fallen down, there are limited places to eat, there's inadequate parking, no toilets etc. etc. This can't be blamed on second home owners - no-one would buy a second home there. It's the fault of a council that has lacked vision for many many years.

Crikey I used to go to Hayle for caravan holidays as a child. Doesn't sound like its changed much.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Graham, you're making it up as you go along now.

For someone that hits the 'flounce' button whenever you think words are being put into your mouth you don't half mind doing the same thing.

I didn't say RTTS didn't extract money from visitors. Nor am I putting it down - it's fun to see all the VW Campers 'parked' on the hard shoulder of the M5. I'm suggesting that Cornwall should be moving upmarket to attract a higher spend.

Take a look at Hayle. It, arguably, has the best beach, in the UK. Then take a look at the town. Most of the harbourside area is derelict, the harbour wall has fallen down, there are limited places to eat, there's inadequate parking, no toilets etc. etc. This can't be blamed on second home owners - no-one would buy a second home there. It's the fault of a council that has lacked vision for many many years.

Again, Cornwall IS upmarket in different areas.

We have, apparently, the most celebrity chefs opening restaurants than any other part of the UK outside of London.

That's upmarket. What else could a place do to become more upmarket? Upmarket is the last thing Cornwall really needs. It's what is killing off local residents.

wotsthat

d.ross wrote: »

Well if all the people with second homes in that area paid the extra council tax, then the council would have more money to invest in the area.

I truly hope you are correct. Historically however Cornwall has suffered from both the lack of and poor quality investment -the local council need to shoulder some of the responsibility for this.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Again, Cornwall IS upmarket in different areas.

We have, apparently, the most celebrity chefs opening restaurants than any other part of the UK outside of London.

That's upmarket. What else could a place do to become more upmarket? Upmarket is the last thing Cornwall really needs. It's what is killing off local residents.

I'm not suggesting the county is filled with restaurants that local people can't afford (and I think you know that). Upmarket could mean better access and parking at beaches, improved public toilets or discouraging the yob culture that is Newquay. Reasonably small things that would benefit everyone.

It needs some original thinking from businesses as well. A couple of examples I can think of - both from Hayle

- there's a chip shop called Hubbards. My late father in law told me they made the best chips in Cornwall. It's hardly ever open.

- Philp's Pasties. A popular pasty shop. They pretty much only make pasties and sell some cakes as well. They are always sold out of at least one of the six or so pasty options available and people are routinely expected to queue outside to get served.

Celebrity chef's are a million miles away from my thinking to be honest. Just make sure you're open, have some stock control procedures in place and treat customers with a little respect.

It's a complex job for the council as the county has some serious deprivation problems. Central government is a bit strapped at the moment, unemployment is high and council tax take is low. The council should think carefully about the messages they send to people with second homes and holidaymakers.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

- there's a chip shop called Hubbards. My late father in law told me they made the best chips in Cornwall. It's hardly ever open.

- Philp's Pasties. A popular pasty shop. They pretty much only make pasties and sell some cakes as well. They are always sold out of at least one of the six or so pasty options available and people are routinely expected to queue outside to get served.

These are hardly something the council can do anything about.

Maybe with the 10% extra tax they could enforce pasty shops to make more pasties?

Why do you want to move to Cornwall again?! lol