Hourl Pay for hobby

hobbyman

Yes, but the skills for what I am doing have taken over 50 years to develop!
I just can't seem to get anyone to say what skilled artistic work should fetch per hour, so after a great deal of thought today, I am hardening my heart. £10 an hour, plus expenses for materials and delivery extra and if things continue as they are, that will be going up as well! Still doesn't come up to what "modern art" fetches though, does it? even though most people of above average intelligence can't actually understand what it is (modern art)?

More doom & gloom on the news tonight with thousands more jobs going. Thanks goodness I was born in 1944 and am not a school-leaver today.

Hobbyman

olias

hobbyman wrote: »

I do have a website (blog) and if you click on my username here and then on Profile and finally Contact Details, my website address is there. (Don't think I am allowed to put it on here). If you look, you will see that I am not offering models for sale or even saying which ones are available.

Very clever.......I see what you did there.;)

Olias

Tinytoes_2

I own a business. I’m the most expensive in my area for what I do, but, because the quality is good, people will pay this. We all have different budgets and different perceptions of what is a fair price for quality. I used to fall into the trap of thinking that my customers all had a similar budget to me (I was skint) and underpriced my service accordingly. Then it would become apparent that some of these customers were willing and perfectly able to pay more, and that the extra £15 or £20 that would have made all the difference to me (and bought a lot of tins of beans!) meant nothing to them. So I started charging more, which had no detrimental effect on sales at all. I’ve not had a customer in eight years who was less than delighted with my service and the value for money they got.

People may be in the market for a clapped out Vauxhall Corsa or for a top of the range Jaguar. I wouldn’t walk into a Mercedes garage and as the salesman if he can reduce the price of his luxury car to the price range of a second hand Fiat Panda because that’s all I can afford. He keeps his prices high and waits for someone with a bigger budget to come along. It’s not your job to save the customer money at your expense. If your services are worth more, then charge more and let the customer decide whether they can afford your product or whether they’ll have to settle for something less. That’s the way of the world. If one guy can’t afford it, another guy can.

Sorry to sound cynical, I’m really not, but if you’ve perfected your craft over 50 years, you shouldn’t give it away for peanuts. It is a thing of value.

Do a search for model ship making and you’ll see a company who charge between £800-£5000 for custom builds. Still feeling guilty?

RuthnJasper

Hobbyman - you sound like you have the skills, honed over many years of dedication and practice. Please don't feel guilty for having acquired those skills.

Have you tried selling on Ebay (with your own minimum "reserve" price)? Selling direct via your website (only basic knowledge here from me, but the "Mr. Site" website package ((available on Amazon)) offers a 'site shop' facility)? Having a table at various craft fairs around the country (especially in traditionally Naval places like Portsmouth or Plymouth)?

Perhaps you could even offer evening classes (fee-payable) at your local Adult Education Centre on basic model building?

Good luck! x

P.S. The USA market would probably LOVE you! xx

hobbyman

Thanks for replies,
Tinytoes
I feel that is very sound advice - thanks.
Ruthnjasper
Yes, I do sell on Ebay from time to time. Craft fairs etc are no good for this sort of thing. Giving evening classes no good either as it takes half a lifetime to develop the skills if you pick them up at the rate I did and not many people interested in making them either. These days, it is kits, kits, kits all the way!
As I said, it is not meant to be a business and I really prefer to just build what I feel like.
The U.S. market is very good, but they cost a fortune to send and with our European Distance selling rules, it makes it a very risky thing as couriers are never willing to insure against damage or loss beyond the cost of materials and that is very low.

My blog website has a good number of viewers, so not looking for another site as it works well enough.

This evening, just got told that a quote was too high at £10 an hour plus building expenses!

However, I feel much better now after reading your replies.

Hobbyman

lessonlearned

You sound very clever and talented and I agree that you should not undervalue your ships. You are selling a work of art and should charge accordingly.

You are selling a high quality item which should not really be affected too much by the recession. A collector is a collector.

If I were you I wouldn't mention the hourly rate, do they need to know that. Just quote for the finished product, plus delivery costs. That's all they need to know. I think most artists and craft people probably don't actually think in terms of hours worked. A piece takes as long as it takes.

I wouldn't even mention the cost of materials either because then it's easy for them to work out what you are charging for your fee. It's your time, expertise and skill, don't go too low just to get a sale. It devalues your work.

Better to sell two a year at £1000 each than 4 at £500.

Good luck

hobbyman

Lesson learned,
Thanks for reply. Not so much clever as tortoise & hare syndrome, after doing it for so many years, one can't help but improve. The trouble is that as they are so small (sometimes only 6 inches long), many people tend to think they should only pay a few pounds for them. Also, it is surprising how the cost of mateials add up. Not so much the wood etc, but display case materials such as acrylic sheet, veneer, Fernch Polish & glue. Amazingly, I do get professional people saying £10 an hour is too much, when they charge upwards of £50 an hour for "their" services!

It is often a case of storage space more than anything else, and I have to get rid of them regularly or I would have to stop. As I said, it is only a hobby - I don't have to do it in order to survive.

I am taking all the advice in that has been given here and I really am feeling more positive about it all.

If I sell too cheaply, just to cover building costs, I am finding more and more often, I am taken advantage of.

Hourly rates for lots of jobs always seem to be kept under wraps. For instance how much do trolley collectors get at supermarkets? How much do shelf stackers get?

I know that my barber gets £6 for 12 minutes work and how often do you see an empty barber shop?

I can see the truth in what Tinytoes says above: "It’s not your job to save the customer money at your expense." And I never thought of it that way before.

hobbyman

ermintrude1

Hi hobbyman
I see a lot of threads on here about people selling a bit of stuff on auction sites etc and they mostly seemed to be told by others they were operating as a business and needed to pay tax on income.

Now, having spoken to a profesional about this I would like to pass on what I learned;

Basically, just because you make a few ££'s on stuff you make or sell on doesn't make you a business or liable to pay tax, unless of course you are earning a lot.

To clarify whether you are a viable business you would need to do the following sums; income from sales less - wages, premises costs, electricity/heating, tools, stationery, materials, telephone/internet charges, selling fees, accountancy costs, travelling costs, etc etc.

If at the end of this - and you have paid yourself at least minimum wage, and you are making a profit, then yes you need to be a registered business and pay tax. However, if you were to submit proper accounts which showed you had actually made a loss, the hmrc would actually close you down as an non viable business - because the reality is in that instance, they would otherwise be required to issue you with a tax refund. (assuming you have other taxable income?)

I hope this helps.

hobbyman

I don't believe that to be the case. They seem quite clear on the subject, if you make things and sell them, you are a business in their eyes. I did make a loss for a couple of years recently, but HMRC never showed the slightest inclination to "close me down!"! But when I started making a profit again, I was able count my losses against it.

hobbyman

ermintrude1

I've no doubt they would tell you that.

My best advice is go and see a decent accountant, this is a tax deductable business expense - either you are a business - with legitimate, tax deductable business expenses - or not.

If you are subsidising your hobby from other taxed income then you are not a viable business.

They are bloodsuckers.