Dismissed - Help!

suicidebob

jettnett wrote: »

I have completed some of the targets set but others are out of my control and could only be achieved if other departments did what they were supposed to.

Much credibility?

Nothing about your disability there.

zzzLazyDaisy

jettnett wrote: »

I don't have to go into specifics of my condition which I am sure you would not.

It is covered in the DDA which is all I think people need to know in order to offer advice.
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Unfortunately you are mistaken and clearly don't understand the discrimination legislation.

Firstly, you keep referring to the DDA when in fact the DDA has been repealed (no longer exists) and the current legislation is contained in the Equality Act 2010.

Secondly, while there are a limited number of specified conditions which are deemed to be disabilities under the Act, without the need to show that the effects of those conditions meet the criteria for qualifying as a disability, none of those specified conditions are mental health conditions.

What this means is that while you may have a mental health condition that is capable of being a disability, it is does not in fact qualify as a disability for the purposes of employment protection unless it meets the specified criteria laid down under the Act. Given that you have only recently been diagnosed it is very unlikely that there has been time to assess whether this is in fact the case, but in any event it certainly isn't as simple as you saying 'I say I have a disability' and assuming that everyone will simply accept this as a fact. They won't, and in particularly a tribunal won't - it will be up to you to prove it. That is your first hurdle and it is a particularly high hurdle to jump when a recently diagnosed and therefore probably as yet unassessed mental health condition is concerned.


You might find this guidance to the Act useful http://odi.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wor/new/ea-guide.pdf

Hammyman

jettnett wrote: »

Hi and thanks for the replies.

My illness is covered under the DDA so I am unsure what to do now.

Unless you are officially diagnosed with it, you're on a hiding to nowhere. It is obvious that whatever the condition it is, it makes this job unsuitable for you anyway.

scheming_gypsy

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Unfortunately you are mistaken and clearly don't understand the discrimination legislation.

Firstly, you keep referring to the DDA when in fact the DDA has been repealed (no longer exists) and the current legislation is contained in the Equality Act 2010.

i kept thinking they were referring to the Dangerous Dogs Act

Emmzi

jettnett wrote: »

If you was dismissed for something you had no discussion about or was given the opportunity to put right, I am sure you would take a different stance.

Actually, I am usually on the either side of the table doing the dismissing. I'll take account of medical conditions where there is a reasonable discussion. It helps if the person has a good track record and is otherwise performing.

As an employee you should be aware of your tracking against targets all the time, so I don't think it is reasonable to say you did not know there was a problem.

Given your disability didn't surface until post 17 when no one was agreeing you had a case based on performance, I'd say you're straw clutching.

Irrespective of that, any employer with a mind to will find a way to make the daata stack up so you have no hope of reinstatement. I would move on, and next time, think about being a bit more specific about what adjustments you need. You're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

RuthnJasper

Hi Jettnett,

Firstly, please accept my sincere sympathy for the situation in which you have found yourself. I know how difficult and distressing it can be - particularly if you are already dealing with a long-term illness.

I am in no way an expert like SarEl (or any of the other posters above, who are all offering you useful guidance), but I AM "disabled" (or otherwise "covered" under the Equality Act 2010, as it were...) with chronic depression. I have suffered with this for many years and my illness is managed through medication and support I've received from the NHS and a counselling service over the years. It may be that you could appeal the decision with appropriate evidence from your GP/hospital consultants, if you have any. Do you have a CPN/support worker? If so, can they help you at all? Failing that, you are taking the best step that you can by speaking with someone from the CAB.

Sometimes, however (and I realise I may be opening a bit of a can of worms here), there will be jobs which simply aren't appropriate for those of us with certain impairments, be they physical or mental. A person with epilepsy really ought not to be an aeroplane pilot, someone living with paraplegia shouldn't really be an ambulance driver/paramedic, and I will never be working in situations which would trigger-off problems for me. Without judging you at all - or your situation, your illness, or individual circumstances - perhaps your employers were considering your well-being in addition to their business?

Whatever the case, I wish you every success with your current situation and your future life. x

SarEl

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Unfortunately you are mistaken and clearly don't understand the discrimination legislation.

Firstly, you keep referring to the DDA when in fact the DDA has been repealed (no longer exists) and the current legislation is contained in the Equality Act 2010.

Secondly, while there are a limited number of specified conditions which are deemed to be disabilities under the Act, without the need to show that the effects of those conditions meet the criteria for qualifying as a disability, none of those specified conditions are mental health conditions.

What this means is that while you may have a mental health condition that is capable of being a disability, it is does not in fact qualify as a disability for the purposes of employment protection unless it meets the specified criteria laid down under the Act. Given that you have only recently been diagnosed it is very unlikely that there has been time to assess whether this is in fact the case, but in any event it certainly isn't as simple as you saying 'I say I have a disability' and assuming that everyone will simply accept this as a fact. They won't, and in particularly a tribunal won't - it will be up to you to prove it. That is your first hurdle and it is a particularly high hurdle to jump when a recently diagnosed and therefore probably as yet unassessed mental health condition is concerned.


You might find this guidance to the Act useful http://odi.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wor/new/ea-guide.pdf

We are in complete agreement, which is what we have been trying to get at all along from the information we have asked for. You now have opinions from both a qualified solicitor and a barrister - I am sorry but a recently diagnosed mental illness which may be fleeting (and for your sake I hope it is) is in no way a disability. I have previously told you - as now has zzzLazyDaisy, that the Equality Act is the relevant legislation. You keep on insisting that you know better and it is the DDA. You are insulting to people who offer you advice and actually wrongly tell them that they don't know what they are talking about when in fact they are correct in what they say. I realise that it is upsetting to be dismissed - but you need to start listening to people because ignoring what they say is not going to help you one bit. There is more actual experience on this thread than half a dozen CAB advisors (who have no employment law training) and half a dozen ACAS advisors, taken together.

jettnett

Thank you Ruth for the kind words.

I will see what the CAB says and update at a later date.

RuthnJasper

jettnett wrote: »

Thank you Ruth for the kind words.

I will see what the CAB says and update at a later date.

Jettnett - please update the thread to let us know how you got on with the CAB. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. x

CFC

jettnett wrote: »

Please climb down off of that high horse.

They were made aware I had a medical condition (fact), knew it would affect my work (fact), chose to ignore this when they supposedly dismissed due to poor performance.

I have a recognized medical condition which has not been taken into account so why should I not want some recompense?

If you was dismissed for something you had no discussion about or was given the opportunity to put right, I am sure you would take a different stance.

Thanks for the comment though, very constructive.

Hi Jettnet,

I'm sorry that you have been dismissed. I know it must be upsetting especially when you have your mental health problem to contend with at the moment.

MH problems has so much stigma attached to it that sometimes it's easy to feel that people are picking on you because of it. Sometimes they are, and sometimes they are not.

Unfortunately Lazydaisy and Sar El are legally correct. As you have only been diagnosed for 3 weeks, it is impossible to say whether you will fall under disability protection - 3 weeks is too short a period to say how much impact the condition will have on your day to day existence over anything but a very short term.

In the Act, a person has a disability if:

• they have a physical or mental impairment
• the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to perform normal day-to-day activities

The act lays down 3 criteria that must be met for the Equality Act to apply:

'substantial' means more than minor or trivial
'long-term' means that the effect of the impairment has lasted or is likely to last for at least twelve months (there are special rules covering recurring or fluctuating conditions)
'normal day-to-day activities' include everyday things like eating, washing, walking and going shopping

Unfortunately again, the company has set performance criteria that are perhaps unachievable - companies sometimes ask the impossible, but the impossible is what is needed to make the job sustainable. When it proves that the job is not sustainable, then the job will go.

As you have been there for such a short length of time, the employers can dismiss you for pretty much any reason they wanted to give. Perhaps they picked performance because the job they wanted you to do was actually impossible.

A tribunal is not able to scrutinise any dismissal on short service unless it is for a discrimination reason. But because you have been diagnosed for such a short period, you will have difficulty in proving that the company dismissed you discriminatively. To add to that, the company will show your impossible objectives and then show that you didn't reach them, and will tell the tribunal that is why you are dismissed.

What that means is that even if the company are in fact dismissing you because of your condition, they will be able to show 'a rag of decency' and hide it.

I know it seems unfair, but it's just the way it works.