Complicated questions, help needed.

meerustar

Hi,

Please bear with me on this as it's complicated and I could post this in a number of places.

My Mums close friend (who I will refer to as my Aunt as that's what I've always called her) has been taken into hospital this week after having a stroke and been told she will be in hospital a few weeks and then rehabilitation for a while too. My mum thinks maybe she won't make it home.

This is where is get complicated.

My Aunt and her husband brought her brother up after taking him out of a childrens home. They bought their council house for cash, but was told at the time that the brother had to have his name on the deeds as otherwise they would be making him 'technically homeless'. So the deeds of the house were in 3 names.

My Aunts husband died a long time ago and My Aunt and her brother lived together for years. She is now 70, he is almost 50. Last year he moved out and fell out with my Aunt big time. They haven't spoken since. My Aunt applied to have her brothers name taken off the deeds and is in the process of doing so. The brother has written a letter to the solicitors stating that he wants nothing to do with the house and that he has no monetary value in it. He never paid a bill a single bill whilst he lived there. She is just waiting for the deeds to come back.

Now, my Aunt is a spendaholic and is up to her eyes in debt, and I mean massive debt .. overdrafts, credit cards, loans and still orders loads of stuff .. we don't even know how she keeps up minimum payments and suspect that a few loans may have been taken out using the house as back up (can't remember what the term used is)

Anyway, a few weeks ago, My Aunt changed her will and has left the whole house to my Mum. My Mum begged her not to as she missed out on her inheritance (long story) and doesn't want to benefit with the brother losing out. If Mum died first, the house would go to me and my 2 sisters, with me being named as the one to sort everything out.

Her house is like a house of treasures. She literally has thousands and thousands of pound worth of stuff (first edition collectables, fine bone china dolls (about 300 limited edition), any collectable thing you can think of, she has)

So she's now in hospital with no real signs of coming out and she's asked my mum to sort everything out!!

Now this is where the questions come.

If my Aunt has to move to a home then her house would presumably have to be sold to pay for her care (my mum would prefer this anyway as she doesnt want the house) ... but then I've said she cant just sell the house as she owes the bank and others thousands of pounds and they would have to be paid first .. and if the brothers names are still on the deeds at the moment before it's finalised, then he could, if he wanted to, make a claim.

I really don't know

So finally, my question ....

What is my mum to do??? Any advice from anyone who has been through a similar situation would be grateful, but I'm guessing that this doesn't crop up that much, lol

I'm so sorry it's long winded and complicated, but I've tried to explain it as I know it. Thanks for reading if you got this far x

Newly_retired

I am sorry for your situation.
A few preliminary thoughts.
There is a possibility that your aunt may be cared for under NHS continuing care, though see other threads about this and it is not by any means straightforward. If she is, then the sale of the house will not be needed immediately to finance her care.
A friend of mine had a stroke, was in hospital for weeks, then in a nursing home for months. It was over a year before she was well enough to be considered for an adapted flat within a care home and this is when the house was sold. ( In any case, she had no further use for it as she could not live independently any more.)

Secondly, does your mother have power of attorney for your aunt? Without it she will not be able to sign any legal or financial documents for your aunt. POA costs money and takes time, so maybe this is something to set in motion. The banks are notoriously difficult in recognising POAs.

i think for the ownership of the house legal advice is needed. It sounds as though there could be little equity in it by the time the various debts are paid.
If the brother's name is on the deeds he will surely be entitled to half the proceeds but as some of the debts are secured on the property the creditors will have first claim.
Hope this helps a bit.

meerustar

Thanks NR

No one has Power of Attourney at the moment, my Aunt is a bit of a loner who relies on my Mum a lot. My Mum is 69 and relies on me alot, so thats why I'm asking as I know it'll end up me sorting things out on Mums behalf.

I was thinking of asking Aunt today if I could take a lot of her items out of the house for safekeeping and storing them. If someone breaks into her house (not alarmed) they will have a ball.

It's all such a mess at the moment and not sure what to do for the best

Farway

Just a thought, if you do remove valuable items form house, with the best of intentions, it may be wise to get your aunt to sign something to say she agrees to this

Whilst her brother has said he has no interest etc, smell of money can turn many a sane person into a greedy grasper

You also have to consider, if you remove valuable items, what if you are burgled?

I agree with newly retired, it does sound like legal advice is required, but who should or will pay for it, no idea

Oldernotwiser

meerustar wrote: »

My Aunt applied to have her brothers name taken off the deeds and is in the process of doing so. The brother has written a letter to the solicitors stating that he wants nothing to do with the house and that he has no monetary value in it. He never paid a bill a single bill whilst he lived there. She is just waiting for the deeds to come back.x

Don't take this the wrong way but are you sure you've got this bit right? Not many people are going to give half a house away, much less inheriting the whole house when your aunt dies.

Why would he do that?

monkeyspanner

I wouldn't worry too much about the will. If your mum wants she as beneficiary could sign a deed of variation and effectively sign over all or part of the aunt's remaining estate to the brother. And the same would apply to yourself.

Yes the value of the house will potentially be considered an asset that could be used to finance care home fees if it comes to her going into a care home. But potentially the brother being on the deeds could possibly prevent part of the value of the house being assessed but this does depend on the way the deeds are written and the attitude of the council. Your Aunts debts and liabilities would be set against any financial assessment.

It would be wise to think about removing valuables as most insurance companies have a 30day limit on houses being empty. However to protect your mum this should be agreed by the Aunt in writing or if this is not possible perhaps a solicitor should be involved.

As also suggested it may be worth considering a power of attorney but it is a big responsibility, would your mum be happy taking this on? Does your mum know what your Aunt wants? I'm not too sure what "sort everything out" means in this circumstance as it sounds like the house would have to be sold in order to pay off the debts and this would potentially leave your Aunt homeless.

meerustar

Farway - Thanks for that advice, it probably would be best to get her to sign something, as if something happens to her, then it could look like I've just taken them for myself.

OBW - I know it does sound strange that he would sign the house away but that is what he has done. I can't remember the official names for these things, but firstly, she went to see a solicitor to stop him being able to move back in as she found out in a supermarket that he had married someone. My Aunt asked the solicitor for advice and was told that he could walk into the house at anytime, with his new wife, and just live there. This scared her to death so got something written up whereby he wasn't allowed to move back in (wish I could remember what it was called). Once this was drawn up and served on her brother, she looked into taking his name off the deeds as she said she has paid every bill and repair etc since the day she bought it. She has receipts going back to the 70's for everything and sent the lot off to her solicitor, they written to the brother who confirmed that he had paid nothing over the years and didn't want the house or anything in it. I know it's a strange one, but they are strange, lol.

MS - I know what you say about Mum signing everything over to the brother, but my Aunt has made her swear to her that she wont let the brother anywhere near the house when she has gone or she will come back and haunt her!! LOL ... Mum is hoping that should the worse come to the worse, then what is left in the Will, will cover the debts .. and shes also hoping that they all get paid off as Mum isnt sure if she will be liable for any! (I don't know either and thats another thread)

Could I just ask .. as my Aunt is in hospital, what happens regarding her bill payments now? She doesnt pay much by direct debit and prefers to send cheques as this way she says she can manage her money !?!?!?!???? So bills will be falling on her mat, and then red letters, then baliff notices etc etc ... she still orders like crazy and only last week took delivery of 64 pillowcases!! She laughed as she said she ordered 32 and thought they were single but they were pairs!!! No wonder she is up to her eyes in debt.

Should I phone to companies and explain what is happening? Will they hold off for payments whilst she is in hospital if I send proof? It's such a mess!

I really want to help her and will do my best, but to be honest, I don't know where to start.

Errata

Should I phone to companies and explain what is happening? Will they hold off for payments whilst she is in hospital if I send proof? It's such a mess!

None of them will discuss your aunt's business with you because of the DPA. However, you could type up an appropriate letter which your aunt could sign which could be sent to all of them

Savvy_Sue

meerustar wrote: »

LOL ... Mum is hoping that should the worse come to the worse, then what is left in the Will, will cover the debts .. and shes also hoping that they all get paid off as Mum isnt sure if she will be liable for any! (I don't know either and thats another thread)

Well, we can answer that one. Debts can't be inherited: they are settled out of the estate, or they die with the dead person. So no, your mum won't be liable for any of the debts: any that can't be settled out of the 'estate' have to be written off.

However, you may find that companies are not keen to accept that, and continue to push for payment, even using such ploys as "I'm sure you agree that [insert name or relationship here] wouldn't want to leave this debt unpaid and would rest easier if it was settled." In which case, you'd think they'd have taken steps to sort it out earlier, wouldn't you?

meerustar wrote: »

I really want to help her and will do my best, but to be honest, I don't know where to start.

To a certain extent, it depends how much your aunt allows you to help, and also whether she has 'capacity' to understand what she's doing. But you could do worse than start by reading up on acting as Power of Attorney, and see if you think that's something you could do for this lady. If she's insistent that she wants your mum to do things rather than you, you're a bit stuffed, apart from being able to advise your mum, BUT I'd always suggest having two attorneys, in case one dies, or in case one is not able to act when the need arises.

Errata wrote: »

None of them will discuss your aunt's business with you because of the DPA. However, you could type up an appropriate letter which your aunt could sign which could be sent to all of them

Here's hoping her signature is legible - FIL's signature became unacceptable at one point!

monkeyspanner

meerustar wrote: »

Could I just ask .. as my Aunt is in hospital, what happens regarding her bill payments now? She doesnt pay much by direct debit and prefers to send cheques as this way she says she can manage her money !?!?!?!???? So bills will be falling on her mat, and then red letters, then baliff notices etc etc ... .

Should I phone to companies and explain what is happening? Will they hold off for payments whilst she is in hospital if I send proof? It's such a mess!

I would say this is another good reason for removing valuables. All I can suggest if your mum has access to the house is that she takes any letters with her when she visits your aunt and gets her to sign cheques as required. Whilst companies probably will not discuss details of your aunts accounts there is no harm asking them to put a note on her records that she is in hospital and is not in a position to answer correspondence this may hold them for a while.