House broken into-police query skeleton key!!

abi-em-mum83

Hi my sister in laws flat was broken into on Saturday afternoon, in broad daylight. She lives on the top floor on a tenement, up 8 flights of stairs. Its a local council flat, shes been there 9 weeks (shes only just moved out of her parents for first time). Before she could move in the council put in a new security door, and apart from her mum no one else has a key. My partner (her brother) and her left the flat and both verified she locked the door (she dropped a bag and broke eggs while doing it so it was easy to remeber locking and checking the lock). When she got home the door was unlocked and they had stolen her laptop and the place was a mess where they'd had a good look about. There was no signs of forced entry, and of course they called the police. They come round and pretty much spoke to her like crap, she came away feeling like they didnt beleive her and didnt care. Forensics came round and got a partial print from door handle but not enough to do anything with. However they had mention its the 3rd council building with these security doors that had been robbed without forced entry, in the last 8 weeks. He said he wondered if someone had a skeleton key.
Now the problem we have is her insurance (we she only purchased 5 weeks ago, never had any before) have said there is no proof she didnt leave the door unlockled and wont pay out for her laptop!
Has anyone ever had experience of a similar situation? Can anyone give us any advice? The council was even charging her £75 to get her locks changed, and told her if she added anymore locks onto the door she would be fined for it!

eamon

How many keys was your sister in law issued with when she took over the tenency? If as you say its a brand new door and lock then it is normal for there to be three keys. If she has less then three keys then she needs to complain vigorously to the landlord and demand that the lock be replaced as she suspects that an unknown 3rd party has a key. It is not unknown for there to be dodgy door & window fitters.
There are many internet posts about the vulnerabilities of older style Euro Profile cylinders. A council or Housing Association shouldn't be fitting on an external door anything other than anti snap/anti bump EP cylinders or good quality five lever locks. It goes against all recommended policies such as "Secured by Design".
Can't help re the insurance though as I said in paragraph 1 if your sil is a key short then try the landlord for damages. If you don't ask you don't get. And just to reiterate get the locks changed as a matter of urgency.

Werdnal

Could they have meant a "Bump key"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_bumping

My brother is a locksmith and he was called out to a job where the police suspect one of these was used only a few weeks ago. The keys can be bought online, and he has one and showed me how they work.

At the very least, the LL should change the locks, and get a proper locksmith's advice, not just send their usual maintenance guy around with a B&Q cheapy!

princeofpounds

Almost certain that the fitters kept a key (or copy of) given what you've said. They've probably just employed an ex-con who realised the potential 'opportunities'.

She is a bit stuck but the things she can do are:

a) complain to the housing unit, the council's CEO, her local councillors and her MP. And the fitting company. Generate enough noise that she might at least get a free lock replacement. Also local papers, though you have to be a bit careful about how you phrase accusations as suspicions.
b) get the police to put in writing the statement about multiple burglaries the same way if you can. This might provide some evidence for the insurer. You will probably still get turned down, so then you can complain and suggest that you might take the case to the FOS. That's a no-cost option for you so might be worth the effort to try.

poppysarah

Get another additional lock fitted.

Jaynne

Given that you have witnesses that the door was locked and a police statement that there have been other similar unforced burglaries should you not just punt this to your insurance company and be firm with them? The onus would be with them to then prove that you had left the door unlocked and anyway it seems pretty likely that given it's up 8 flights of stairs someone has been out to burgle.

Oh and change the locks, not that that will necessarily help I've a friend living at the top of a tenement who had her thick 100 year old wood door broken through to get in.

societys_child

No forced entry? . . . as mentioned by Werdnal, sounds very much like it's been "bumped"

Make your own bump key or they are available cheaply on the net.
Major problem, especially as your insurance company is likely to refuse a claim due to the fact there is no obvious sign of a break-in.

This video shows how a supposedly anti bump lock fails . . . miserably

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUinL6uwyWo

Werdnal

societys_child wrote: »

No forced entry? . . . as mentioned by Werdnal, sounds very much like it's been "bumped"

Make your own bump key or they are available cheaply on the net.
Major problem, especially as your insurance company is likely to refuse a claim due to the fact there is no obvious sign of a break-in.

This video shows how a supposedly anti bump lock fails . . . miserably

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUinL6uwyWo

You can get anti-bump fluid which you can treat the locks with. It apparently prevents the pins within the lock being moved by anything other than the genuine key.

martyn05

A micro forensic scientist can tell if a lock has been bumped or not. By examining the lock pins they can tell the difference by the marks left on the pins, the correct key makes certain marks and a bump key makes different marks. Also, look just above the top of the keyway and you may see a tiny indentation, this is where the key shoulder hits the cylinder face, when bumping a lock it quite often leaves a tell tale dent.

Get your locks changed, someone has been in once before so they could come back.

minibbb

To be honest it probably hasn't even been bumped, search supa mica on google. Its thin sheets of plastic used to slip yale type locks very very easily, none of the skill needed for bumping is necessary. I have a pack I use in the course of my work (emergency services) and I reckon I have at least a 95% success rate, some locks are just too tight to fit the sheet in.