Some very basic setting up an ebay business questions

JonTurner

In the case of things without receipts, you'll need to create a dated invoice/receipt for yourself detailing what you bought and what you paid (sounds odd I know, but it's normal, recommended practice, especially when dealing with second hand goods). You'll probably want to keep a separate log book or spreadsheet with all your purchases on too, so you can easily cross reference with the receipts you keep. Make sure you also keep your post office receipts, as they'll count as expenditure too (the actual postage and package payments from customers will count as income, so if you don't claim the postage costs as expenditure you'll be liable to more tax than you should be)

chickaroonee

Thanks, I hoped something like that would be OK regarding things without receipts. Was also going to set up an income/expenditure spreadsheet too, very rudimentary but hopefully will do the job.

soolin

ludovico wrote: »

Well yes I would because I accept that I am changing my mind and am not entitled to be refunded for these additional services. The seller isn't refusing to refund in full, they are complying with what the law states. For example taken from Amazon:

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=-1]"You should be aware that once we begin the delivery process you will not be able to cancel any contract you have with us for additional services carried out by us (eg: giftwrapping)."[/SIZE][/FONT]

A buyer who opted for an addition service and then cancels their contact because they have changed their mind but expects more than the seller and the law offers is acting unreasonable IMHO.

Unreasonable maybe but ebay is not Amazon. Therefore if buyer wants a full refund then they get one..it is as simple as that.

Also as this is not Amazon the giftwrapping example is barely relevant as I have not seen any seller that offers gift wrapping for an additional payment as of course it would be seen as fee avoidance if the charge was not on the auction and liable for FVFs.

Amazon is a big company, if you want to compare ebay sellers with anything then compare them to Amazon marketplace sellers and if you do that you will note that those marketplace sellers also cannot charge for extras.

RFW

ludovico wrote: »

For a change of mind return handled professionally by a seller there should be no need for a dispute (unless the customer chooses to be difficult), however even if eBay or Paypal refunded in full the consumer would still be liable for the costs of an additional service. Enforcing this is difficult and it most cases not feasible but the DSRs do state a retailer does not have to refund for these costs.

Here's the bit relating to this from the OFT website

What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if
they cancel?
3.48 The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of
the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the
payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or prepayment
made, including the cost of delivery. The essence of
distance selling is that consumers buy from home and receive goods
at home. In these circumstances, almost every case of home
shopping will involve delivery of the goods ordered and so delivery
forms an essential part of the contract.
3.49 If you provided additional services such as gift wrapping or express
delivery that a consumer specifically requested, then you may
withhold the additional charges incurred by the consumer for these
services only if:

• the additional services were provided under a separate contract
• you had the consumer’s agreement to start the additional services
• before the end of the cancellation period, and you provided the consumer with the required written information before you started the additional services, including information that the cancellation rights would end as soon as you started to carry out the additional services.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

In general Amazon themselves, Amazon Marketplace sellers and eBay sellers are all the same, businesses supplying the consumer, size is irrelevant

On eBay the seller could have a separate listing for gift wrapping which could be seen as a sepatate contract but paid for together, in this instance, under the DSRs even if eBay/Paypal refund the consumer would still be liable for the cost of the gift wraping and my understanding is if the seller invoiced the customer for this charge and then enforced it through the courts they would side with the seller based on the regs quoted above.

I'm not sure about express delivery and exactly what would be classed as a separate contract, normally I only offer standard P&P and any enhanced postal services are agreed separately and taken as a separate payment which would again mean the consumer isn't entitled to see this refunded. How this would fair based on the consumer choosing from a selection of postal options during eBay Checkout I couldn't say.

But the main point is just because eBay/Paypal refund this doesn't mean the seller can not pursue their loses that they were not entitled to refund, but as above in most cases this isn't feasible.

Crowqueen

RFW wrote: »

Here's the bit relating to this from the OFT website

Actually that comes down on Ludo's side, so long as that is in his T&Cs.

Pursuing the customer for those additional extras however would be costly as it would involve taking them to a small claims court. eBay and Paypal will refund the whole original payment paid during a dispute, so IMO it's often better, when dealing with unhappy buyers, to pay back the whole payment and not bother to pursue it, which might cost you more than it costs just to refund the "optional extras". You might call it good customer service, which buyers frequently reward in other ways, making it an opportunity cost to hold them to "optional extras" when there is more to be gained by treating them better than the law explicitly allows for.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I agree with the above regarding customer service completely, however my posts above refer to change of mind returns, this is where this is no unhappy customer, nor any need for a dispute, merely a customer who has purchased something they decide they do not want.

In this instance if the terms are correct I for example wouldn't refund a git wrapping service as the customer has had the full benefit of this service and has no right to cancel this service once the item is actually gift wrapped.

Regarding postal enhancements, if someone buys a 2.99 item with a 10% margin and asked for SD at an extra cost of around £6 and then changes their mind and cancels after receipt, not many sellers would suffer a £6 loss on a 30pence profit sale in the interest of customer service. Doing so is exemplary service and may earn repeat custom but this would depend upon your product range. For expensive goods or goods relating to a hobby for example you have a greater chance of retaining a customer. For a general use, generic goods freely available at a wide range of prices and retailers the consumer is more likely to shop on price.

How far you go with CS depends upon your customers and your margin but the above posts by myself detail what is stated by law under DSRs which is what the OP asked.