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ok to sign Working Time Directive form?
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Lunch breaks are excluded from the definition of working time, whether paid or unpaid.
Holidays should be excluded or have a neutral influence on the calculation.0 -
Hi, just an update:
Our boss has just come into see a colleague of mine (who hadn't signed the opt out form) to tell him that he has done too much overtime (meaning he has done over the 48 hours per week over the last 17 weeks).
My friend asked if holidays count as he has the next two days off but the manager said that don't.
He asked my fried to sign it, my friend said if he rewrites the form to lower the opt-in period notice of one week instead of two then he will.
The manager then said that he'd knock it down to a day if he wanted.
My two questions are can the holidays be included in the equation? And can the period be reduced to one day? I thought it was a minimum of 7 days.0 -
Hello, anyone?0
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Hi, just an update:
Our boss has just come into see a colleague of mine (who hadn't signed the opt out form) to tell him that he has done too much overtime (meaning he has done over the 48 hours per week over the last 17 weeks).
My friend asked if holidays count as he has the next two days off but the manager said that don't.
He asked my fried to sign it, my friend said if he rewrites the form to lower the opt-in period notice of one week instead of two then he will.
The manager then said that he'd knock it down to a day if he wanted.
My two questions are can the holidays be included in the equation? And can the period be reduced to one day? I thought it was a minimum of 7 days.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/4/made
probably won't explain this well but
Holidays are excluded during the reference period so the period extends for more days to cover those.
One day seems to be acceptable.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/5/made
I think if he want the overtime then then there needs to be a bit of give and take.
If the employer is happy with the 1 days notice then change the contracts to make working over the WTD limits optional then every one can sign and choose to do the extra or not.0 -
From Direct.gov
What does not count as work?
Your working week does not include:- breaks when no work is done, such as lunch breaks
- normal travel to and from work
- time when you are on call away from the workplace
- evening and day-release classes not related to work
- travelling outside of normal working hours
- unpaid overtime that you have volunteered for, so for example, staying late to finish something off
- paid or unpaid holiday
This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
The people who want to work overtime need to calculate how many hours overtime they normally do. If it is more than 8, they should sign the form (unless they would rather not do the over-time). Without the opt-out an employee cannot choose to work more than 48 hours even if it suits them to do so. This means that for employees who have not opted out, the employer must keep careful records, and ensure that those employees do not exceed the 48 hours - even if they want to.
I suspect that the employer is just trying to minimise the paperwork and record keeping needed for those employees who do not opt out.I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.0 -
Thank you so very much for your help so far, it is much appreciated.
However, because i am very very slow at picking things up, im afraid i need a bit of clarification-
My friend has consistantly worked over the 48 hour 'limit' for the past 17 weeks but has had a week's holiday during that period, is he actually over the wtd limit?
Secondly, this is the concern:
The employees believe the reason the employer wants us to sign the wtd form is so that the employer can change our working week from a 40 hour week spread over 4 and a half days to 5 days immediately whereas if we dont sign it they will have to give us 3 months notice.
Is this a possible outcome please?
Thank you.0 -
Thank you so very much for your help so far, it is much appreciated.
However, because i am very very slow at picking things up, im afraid i need a bit of clarification-
My friend has consistantly worked over the 48 hour 'limit' for the past 17 weeks but has had a week's holiday during that period, is he actually over the wtd limit?
The weeks holiday dooes not count, that is only 16 weeks so the next week counts towards the calculation.
Secondly, this is the concern:
The employees believe the reason the employer wants us to sign the wtd form is so that the employer can change our working week from a 40 hour week spread over 4 and a half days to 5 days immediately whereas if we dont sign it they will have to give us 3 months notice.
I think they still have to consult and give notice to make the change in contractual hours.
Is this a possible outcome please?
Thank you.
How many hours over has he done in the 16weeks he may be over with normal hours in the 17th week.0 -
From Direct.gov
It states that you must give your employer at least 7 days notice. However I suppose there is nothing stopping the employer reducing the notice period but I would ensure that you had it in writing just to make sure.
The act says
(2) An agreement for the purposes of paragraph (1)—
(a)may either relate to a specified period or apply indefinitely; and
(b)subject to any provision in the agreement for a different period of notice, shall be terminable by the worker by giving not less than seven days' notice to his employer in writing.
(3) Where an agreement for the purposes of paragraph (1) makes provision for the termination of the agreement after a period of notice, the notice period provided for shall not exceed three months
So the opt out agreement can have any notice they want subject to the maximum of 3months.0 -
Thank you all.
My friend is not sure how many hours over he is/was.
Id still like a definitive answer on the idea that if we sign then they can change our working hours to a full 5 days but still doing 40hours. It's the phrase 'I have had the full impact and implications explained to me' that i dont like the sound of you see.
Does anyone actually think that they could do this?0
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