bad t&c

terra_ferma

Possibly one of the worst t&c I've ever seen...

If a negative feedback is posted before we have responded to any problem, it will invalidate your returns.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Colour-Changing-Mushroom-Light-Mood-Night-Light-NEW-/130537678923?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM&var=&hash=item641f5eb3bf

Probably trying to stop people reporting their items as fakes through fb...

Mrs_justjohn

Some returns are a legal obligation regardless of whether neg f/b has been left (or will be left) and if you have made a mistake it is good cust serv to accept the return regardless of f/b again. So whilst I can not agree with that T&C, I can (sort of) see where they are coming from. Feedback for me signifies the end of the transaction and I believe it should only be left once the transaction is final (i.e no more communication, complaints...etc...)

On a slightly different note - Did you see how many of her feedback comments mentioned that the product was smaller than expected (I know they were fakes apparantly) but in fairness all her auctions stated they were travel size tubes and contained 7.5ml - talk about buyers not reading descriptions...LOL. They were happy to receive a fake but wanted a bigger tube of fake makeup.....LOL

soolin

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

Some returns are a legal obligation regardless of whether neg f/b has been left (or will be left) and if you have made a mistake it is good cust serv to accept the return regardless of f/b again. So whilst I can not agree with that T&C, I can (sort of) see where they are coming from. Feedback for me signifies the end of the transaction and I believe it should only be left once the transaction is final (i.e no more communication, complaints...etc...)

LOL

I'm not sure I agree with that. Whilst I would always advise a buyer to leave feedback only at the end of the whole transaction so they have a fairer picture of the seller I think there are instances where a neg should be left early. Feedback is a gude to future buyers, not a punishment, so if somehting is so seriously wrong it is a buyers duty to warn other people who might be buying not to bother. That might be needed before the original buyer has completed any complaints procedure.

When I see a seller with terms like that though I just assume they are scammers and avoid them, but less experienced buyers might risk it and they need to be aware of ongoing issues.

I do not see any point at all for any seller to have such a daft and menaingless term in their auction blurb.

terra_ferma

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

Some returns are a legal obligation regardless of whether neg f/b has been left (or will be left) and if you have made a mistake it is good cust serv to accept the return regardless of f/b again. So whilst I can not agree with that T&C, I can (sort of) see where they are coming from. Feedback for me signifies the end of the transaction and I believe it should only be left once the transaction is final (i.e no more communication, complaints...etc...)

On a slightly different note - Did you see how many of her feedback comments mentioned that the product was smaller than expected (I know they were fakes apparantly) but in fairness all her auctions stated they were travel size tubes and contained 7.5ml - talk about buyers not reading descriptions...LOL. They were happy to receive a fake but wanted a bigger tube of fake makeup.....LOL

There is not reason why a buyer should only leave fb once the transaction is complete, it's up to them to leave it as and when (and if) they see fit.
Fb and returns are totally separate, and for a business seller returns are not optional.

I see that as a form of feedback extortion/blackmail.

Mrs_justjohn

terra_ferma wrote: »

Fb and returns are totally separate, and for a business seller returns are not optional.

Yes I agree - where did I state otherwise?

I see that as a form of feedback extortion/blackmail.

You see what as a form of f/b extortion? I was merely saying that feedback for me is left at the end of a transaction so that if there was a problem I could factor in their handling of the problem when I leave feedback and stars. How did they address my complaint? Did they reply promptly? Did they kick up a fuss, be rude and try and turn things back on me? Did they shirk their legal onligations?

Things like this would affect the f/b I left. I would not neg at the first sign of trouble as how they handled the problem is what is key to me and may well sway what would have been a neg into a positive.

F/B extortion or blackmail is when you demand something over and above what you are entitled to 'or else you'll neg'. I have never done that and never would, and do not see how you got that from my post?

terra_ferma

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

F/B extortion or blackmail is when you demand something over and above what you are entitled to 'or else you'll neg'. I have never done that and never would, and do not see how you got that from my post?

my comment wasn't implying you have committed fb extorsion, but that the seller I was referring to effectively blackmails buyers into not leaving negative feedback by threatening not to accept returns.

Mrs_justjohn

terra_ferma wrote: »

my comment wasn't implying you have committed fb extorsion, but that the seller I was referring to effectively blackmails buyers into not leaving negative feedback by threatening not to accept returns.

Right I see, Sorry - I misunderstood - I thought your comment was addressed at me.

In terms of the seller blackmailing buyers it wouldn't be very effective. If they held off leaving feedback until after the item was returned and they had their refund, they could then neg them...LOL Now if the seller is saying "leave positive feedback now and then I'll accept the return" then that is very wrong!

terra_ferma

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

Right I see, Sorry - I misunderstood - I thought your comment was addressed at me.

In terms of the seller blackmailing buyers it wouldn't be very effective. If they held off leaving feedback until after the item was returned and they had their refund, they could then neg them...LOL Now if the seller is saying "leave positive feedback now and then I'll accept the return" then that is very wrong!

I think we agree more than we disagree

They are very very very stupid IMO, I've seen many bad t&c, but never one that makes threats involving fb.
I'm surprised that ebay's bots have not picked it up, they probably search for listings with the word feedback..

Crowqueen

eBay made a promise nearly two years ago to increase their standards for "professionalism" in listings, but it doesn't seem to be very easy to enforce. And I don't suppose it could be unless like Amazon they made sellers adhere to a standard set of returns/refund policies or imposed the DSRs on private sellers as well as businesses.

I'm not sure what the solution is - what is the seller's feedback like? On principle I try not to buy from people like this, but if they are TRS or whatever then they must not let it get to that stage before putting their foot down, in which case I'd be more prepared to buy from them than, obviously, if their feedback reflects their ostensibly poor customer service.

You see some sellers carping about the no-ability-for-sellers-to-leave-negs issue still on the boards - when the reality is, that they have never had cause to do so until now and it's only now they've realised what actually happened three years ago.

cit_k

Illegal unenforcable terms.

Leave a neg if need be, then report them to trading standards.

They cannot opt out of the Distance selling regs with a sentence on ebay.

terra_ferma

cit_k wrote: »

Illegal unenforcable terms.

Leave a neg if need be, then report them to trading standards.

They cannot opt out of the Distance selling regs with a sentence on ebay.

Yes I know that.
I haven't actually bought anything, I'm not that naive... I'm a very fussy buyer, anything below 99.9 and good t&c makes me nervous... (and I also check answers to feedback left etc etc)