MSE News: EST cuts solar panels' bill savings estimate

akarobin

Cardew wrote: »

Without passing any moral judgement, you are aware, I take it, that technically you are committing fraud/theft and that you should notify your supplier and get the meter changed - it is perfectly possible that the Company could estimate and bill you for the amount the meter has run backwards?
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The Electricity Companys are aware of which meters run backwards. How ? - The Solar PV Installer is obliged to report to the FiT provider that a PV system has been installed at an adress which is recognised by its MPAN no (the long 22odd digit number on your elec bill).
The MPAN no tells the Electricty Company which type of meter is installed - and eventually they do get around to replacing those which run backwards.
The sad fact is, some Electricity Companys take months to get around to changing these old meters.
We're so exploited by these monopolies that a few Kwh lost on an old meter is irrelevant as they just pile it on the Electricty Price Increase !

Cardew

akarobin wrote: »

The Electricity Companys are aware of which meters run backwards. How ? - The Solar PV Installer is obliged to report to the FiT provider that a PV system has been installed at an adress which is recognised by its MPAN no (the long 22odd digit number on your elec bill).
The MPAN no tells the Electricty Company which type of meter is installed - and eventually they do get around to replacing those which run backwards.
The sad fact is, some Electricity Companys take months to get around to changing these old meters.
We're so exploited by these monopolies that a few Kwh lost on an old meter is irrelevant as they just pile it on the Electricty Price Increase !

Well the electricity companies are not aware of meters that actual advance the meter by every kWh generated by the panels. e.g PV panels generate 3,000kWh and meter runs forward 3,000kWh!!

In fact not only unaware but refused to believe it could happen.

There is a thread running on this subject they have installed a check meter alongside the original meter - a Siemans anti-tamper.

Gemius

Just had a rep around from Apple Solar Energy. He tried every trick in the book. ie £ 2000 worth of Free panels if we signed straight away + breaking news that the subsidy was to be reduced from March 2012 if installation didn't start by15th Dec.

The reduction of the subsidy was a surprise as I had understood that provided you signed up before March 2012 you got the current rate. Can anyone confirm whether this is correct or not

jesset32

Invest £10k, get £25K back. Sounds great, but do the calculations take into account :
cost of Capital ( 10K in the bank at 4.75% = saving less £475 p.a. - £11875 over 25 yrs)
cost of replacing the inverter after 10 yrs (£1000)
general maintenance -minimal at first, but sods law says there will be a failure.
roof repairs + how do you do them?
additional insurance costs.
reduced efficiency of the panels over 25 yrs. - (97% reduces to 80%).
reduced house selling price. Roof installations can look very unsightly
if installed on the 'wrong' elevation.
cost of de-installation and making good after 25 yrs.

Cardew

jesset32 wrote: »

Invest £10k, get £25K back. Sounds great, but do the calculations take into account :
cost of Capital ( 10K in the bank at 4.75% = saving less £475 p.a. - £11875 over 25 yrs)
cost of replacing the inverter after 10 yrs (£1000)
general maintenance -minimal at first, but sods law says there will be a failure.
roof repairs + how do you do them?
additional insurance costs.
reduced efficiency of the panels over 25 yrs. - (97% reduces to 80%).
reduced house selling price. Roof installations can look very unsightly
if installed on the 'wrong' elevation.
cost of de-installation and making good after 25 yrs.

Welcome to the forum


There are scores of posts on the 'economics' of the FIT system in the Green forum; however I would agree that there are plenty of potential problems when considering a PV array over 25 years.


4.75% is not available after tax.


You have also to invest each year any savings from FIT and in-house consumption to get a fair comparison.

John_Pierpoint

Gemius wrote: »

Just had a rep around from Apple Solar Energy. He tried every trick in the book. ie £ 2000 worth of Free panels if we signed straight away + breaking news that the subsidy was to be reduced from March 2012 if installation didn't start by15th Dec.

The reduction of the subsidy was a surprise as I had understood that provided you signed up before March 2012 you got the current rate. Can anyone confirm whether this is correct or not

Legally the position is this:
The government will be cutting the feed in tariff much more than ever expected from the end of March 2012.
These cuts and the new rate were a matter of consultation.
The period of consultation has ended before Xmas and the government is likely to announce the definitive details in January.
Cutting the rates and announcing the new details before the end of the period of consultation has been ruled as illegal by the high court, following a challenge by Friends of the Earth and a pair of solar organisations, all working together.
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The outcome is likely to be (IMHO) that the official FiT rate will be cut next April to roughly half of what was expected and that new rate will apply to all installations installed since the official & legal announcement in January 2012.

That will leave a grey area for those installations after the illegal date: on or after 12 December 2011.

As registrations have slumped to a trickle since 12 December 2011 and the least fleet of foot were the local authorities, they well may be being tipped the wink that registered installations before the official legal announcement will be paid at the old contracted rates. (IMHO !!!!!! - I know someone who drove a round trip of 150 miles, on the Thursday before the "illegal" deadline, to present his certificate for registration at National Power and was told by the receptionist he was one of over 1,000 similar personal deliveries.)

Anything you are being told by salesmen at the moment is just their "humble opinion".

It makes me think we must have imported a branch of the Italian civil service to run the country.

Don't forget that as from next April the proposal is that 86% of the homes in the country country will not be able to qualify
for PV panels because they have an energy performance certificate of less than class "C".
Neither the home owner nor the salesman can know the energy performance of the building (unless it is a new one) without employing considerable technical expertise in an attempt to find out. Even then the result would be very much open to challenge, up or down.

It could well turn out to be a surveyors' and lawyers' retirement bonanza in practise.

John_Pierpoint

Cardew wrote: »

4.75% is not available after tax.

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It certainly isn't inflation proofed either.

Last month Mr Tesco's bank was offering Inflation plus 1% on an 8 year bond.

John_Pierpoint

Cardew wrote: »

Well the electricity companies are not aware of meters that actual advance the meter by every kWh generated by the panels. e.g PV panels generate 3,000kWh and meter runs forward 3,000kWh!!

In fact not only unaware but refused to believe it could happen.

There is a thread running on this subject they have installed a check meter alongside the original meter - a Siemans anti-tamper.

It has always been a mystery to me how decisions are made to change meters.

I have economy seven and thus two meter readings.
Very roughly my usage over the year is 50:50.
The "statutory requirement" is only to send a meter reader once every two years, so I regularly supply my own readings in an attempt to keep the actual consumption and resulting bill in line with reality.

From time to time a meter reader turns up and sometimes manages to transpose the two figures in his tablet computer.

This causes all manner of confusion, as I am not allowed to submit a negative reading in an attempt to correct the "official" meter reading.

Meanwhile in a nearby road, I have an acquaintance with PV panels who has been struggling through the last two summers - because he too is not allowed to submit a negative reading;)

grahamc2003

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Cutting the rates and announcing the new details before the end of the period of consultation has been ruled as illegal by the high court, following a challenge by Friends of the Earth and a pair of solar organisations, all working together.
.
.

Although currently illegal, the government have challenged that decision (either by lodging an appeal, or seeking leave to appeal, not sure which).

Until we know the outcome of the govenment challenge, it's impossible to know the eventual legality of the implemented fit cut timeframe.

(My view, fwiw, although any legal case is impossible to predict, I expect the gov to win any appeal. Of course, an appeal may not actually go ahead, especially if the number of installations affected by the timescale is insignificant).

HalloweenJack

the difference between friends of the eartn and homesun (the complainents in the case) is simple FoE are challenging the timing of the desicion but agree the cut is right , whereas homesun are complaining over teh cut.


i for one do not want my electric bill to rise by 500% to pay homesun`s profits.