northumbria water and debt collectors

soccermom

Someone kindly suggested I put this in here so I am re posting from another forum on MSE.

In 2008 we sold our house and moved into a rental in aug 2008 until Feb 2009 with a 6 month contract until we moved to Australia.

We paid all utilities and informed all the necessary people we were moving out and paid all bills.

However 2 weeks ago we got a debt collection letter in the uk telling us that we owed money to them from Aug 2008 to June 2009. I spoke to the bank and they confirmed all the payments we had made for our time in the house and I then spoke to Northumbria water who said they needed proof of our rental agreement which we managed to get which showed Aug 2008 to Feb 2009 and sent it off to the collection agency as NW requested.

However the debit collection agency is now saying that thats not good enough they want proof of where we were from February 2009 to June 2009, getting this info is more tricky. Apparently a 6 month rental contract does not prove we didn't move back in without a contract????? so we have to prove we didn't move back in.

Does any of this make sense

They have requested passports, stamps, airplane tickets (don't have) if we have them etc.

My husband (the bill is in his name) did not have a passport stamp for when we arrived in Australia not sure why as me and the kids did but it is stamped coming back, this is not enough proof apparently.


NW claim they have no record of me telling them, I definitely did as I contacted them at the same time as the council tax and followed the same proceedure as we did when we sold our home, we had no problem with that.

I have learn't my lesson and now everything goes recorded delivery after a similar incident with hubbies 3 mobile account.

All paperwork from Australia was shredded when we left and have no formal rental agreement from over there so can't even ask an estate agent.

I'm not sure where we go from here the only proof hubby has of being there is a stamp coming back.

Is all this normal? shouldn't the initial rental agreement be enough? Not sure where we go from here we seem to be at a stalemate.

Any suggestions or advice please.

Much appreciated.

chanz4

ask your old council for a copy of your final council tax bill, this should do. Been honest I could write you a tennancy right now with your name on iut, saying you live at my address thats another reason people dont accept them.

soccermom

chanz4 wrote: »

ask your old council for a copy of your final council tax bill, this should do. Been honest I could write you a tennancy right now with your name on iut, saying you live at my address thats another reason people dont accept them.

Forgive my ignorance just trying to confirm.

The tenancy agreement is from the estate agent. Is it not an official contract by law? Are you saying that they may not accept it because anyone could have written it.

What would the final council tax bill show that would be anything different than the rental agreement or would it just be a better more official piece of evidence to prove when we left the property.

Thanks for your help.

FireWyrm

Ok, so let's getnthis straight....

The debt collection agency is disputing your tenancy agreement? They are asking for proof that you weren't in the country? That's ridiculous. Start down the 'prove it' path. It's up to them to prove you owe the debt. You've already told them where you were, you've sent the your final council tax bill which is pretty cast iron. Yu weren't living there and its up to them to prove you were. Is yur name on the tenancy? If so, your entry stamp into Australia should be more than sufficient. Do yu have some sort of official bill from your time in Oz? Use that also.

chanz4

FireWyrm wrote: »

Ok, so let's getnthis straight....

The debt collection agency is disputing your tenancy agreement? They are asking for proof that you weren't in the country? That's ridiculous. Start down the 'prove it' path. It's up to them to prove you owe the debt. You've already told them where you were, you've sent the your final council tax bill which is pretty cast iron. Yu weren't living there and its up to them to prove you were. Is yur name on the tenancy? If so, your entry stamp into Australia should be more than sufficient. Do yu have some sort of official bill from your time in Oz? Use that also.

It does not state that they sent the tennancy agreement, I suggested it as its more of a reliable one as it has an end date for an official channel.

Tennancy agreements do get forged and are easy to produce, In my job the company refuses to accept them as proof for this exact reason

nottoolate

FireWyrm wrote: »

Ok, so let's getnthis straight....

The debt collection agency is disputing your tenancy agreement? They are asking for proof that you weren't in the country? That's ridiculous.

exactly. utterly ridiculous

they clearly know they are in the wrong but are just trying to bully the op into paying regardless

the debt collectors must prove liability or they can just get lost.

soccermom

Thank you for all the replies. Just to clarify it was the tenancy agreement I sent to the debt collectors not the final council tax bill. The tenancy agreement was in both mine and OH name.

After going through eveything last night I managed to come up with a chewed up piece of paper with coffee stains on :o which is a receipt for when we paid a deposit on a rental house dated 3rd Feb 2009.

It is headed with queensland govt so i'm hoping that will suffice.

I feel like going down the route of telling them to shove it but I know in reality I need to sort it before it esculates so hopefully this will be the end of it. I will contact the council today to get a council tax final bill just in case the DC come back.

Thanks for your help.

dancingfairy

Surely all they have to do is contact the estate agent and double check things? They are trying it on. You don't owe it, you have provided proof you don't owe it.
I'd have a check on OFT guidelines as they must have broken some and write a stroppy complaint letter to the Debt collector, Northumbria Water and report them to the OFT.
Cheeky Monkeys
df

soccermom

dancingfairy wrote: »

Surely all they have to do is contact the estate agent and double check things? They are trying it on. You don't owe it, you have provided proof you don't owe it.
I'd have a check on OFT guidelines as they must have broken some and write a stroppy complaint letter to the Debt collector, Northumbria Water and report them to the OFT.
Cheeky Monkeys
df

You would think they would, but they say I could have come to an informal contract with the landlord and moved back in a couple of weeks later without the EA knowing :eek:

That is why they want the proof of where we were from Feb to June 2009 when someone else took over the account for that address with NW.

Seems absolutely crazy to me and the whole world has gone mad.

I wouldn't mind but we never defaulted on a payment with them in 20 years and have always done everything by the book.

FireWyrm

Nope, stick to your guns. It's up to them to prove it. You've given them the information, you've told them where you were and their invention of spurious and ridiculous circumstances under which you 'could' have been cheating them is none of your concern. Tell that that in a letter. They cant do anything without a court order, certainly not enter your house, attach to earnings or in anyway impede your normal life, so after filing all of your evidence and double checking your facts, sit back and wait for them to prove their case in court. They'll twist and bleat, but they havnt got a leg to stand on if your information is correct. It isnt your debt, it's none of your business and they can get knotted. You've been more than reasonable by even bothering to engage with them.

I had the same issue with a previous tenant of the rental I am now in. A couple of debt collectors came to the door accusing me of being the person they wanted. I told them I wasnt and that they should mind their tone of voice. They insisted on entering the house which I refused, but just to shut them up, I showed them my driving licence. They suggested that it could be a forgery :eek: which I strongly disputed and replied that unless they got off my property, they could explain themselves to the police. A couple of threatograms later, I sent them a photocopy of the licence and told them to shove it. They left me alone after that.

Basically, you want the one person in the office with the brain cell that week. Get hold of seniour management at the water company and demand that they listen to you and that they acknowledge their mistake or you are going to make a big fuss with OFT. This is harrassment plain and simple and you will be seeking damages unless they call off their dogs and forward you a written appology immediately. You have proved your case, it's up to them to prove theirs. Stand your ground.

soccermom

Thank you very much I think I may just do that.

I have bent over backwards to prove my case everything is above board they have the contract. My last payment to NW was paid in Jan 2009 for 2 months worth of water so they have everything I owe them.

Its not my fault no one lived in that house from Feb to June.

I will write to them and outline everything that I have already done, then tell them to shove it politely of course.