Do you want your kids to go to university ? then have you sorted out the funding ?

opinions4u

At some point our Government screwed up when it decided 40%+ of 18 year olds should go to university. It's a ridiculous number as 40%+ of jobs patently don't need a degree.

My own belief is the universities should select under-graduates on the basis of academic ability - nothing else - and that the state should pay the tuition fees and basic living costs for all UK students. Many of these students will pay more tax when they hit the workplace. It's an investment.

But half of all places should be removed and a large number of these bloated establishments should be closed down. There really is no need for them.

kfm

opinions4u wrote: »

My own belief is the universities should select under-graduates on the basis of academic ability - nothing else - and that the state should pay the tuition fees and basic living costs for all UK students. Many of these students will pay more tax when they hit the workplace. It's an investment.

But half of all places should be removed and a large number of these bloated establishments should be closed down. There really is no need for them.

I agree that admission should be based on academic ability. I still believe that tuition fees should exist but that they should be based on what you or your parents can afford; parents as well as the state have a responsibility to educate the younger generation.

With government squeezing university funding, many institutions are taking on a greater number of foreign students from outside the EU as fees are higher AND student qualifications are generally higher with the likes of the IB and Singaporean and HK A level equivalents.

Many of these foreign students will not remain in the UK after graduating leading to a "brain-drain". Let's put it this way, if people in the UK aren't willing to stump up the cost of education, whether it's through taxes or tuition fees/loans, there are plenty of people from other parts of the world that will, and it will be the UK that pays the price for this.

chris_m

opinions4u wrote: »

At some point our Government screwed up when it decided 40%+ of 18 year olds should go to university. It's a ridiculous number as 40%+ of jobs patently don't need a degree.

My own belief is the universities should select under-graduates on the basis of academic ability - nothing else -

But half of all places should be removed and a large number of these bloated establishments should be closed down. There really is no need for them.

Hear, hear, somewhat like the "old days" - but there is a snag.

In the "old days" those who didn't make it to uni on academic ability often still had the opportunity to do further education, often more vocational courses, at polytechnics, technical colleges, etc which was, for many, actually a better choice.

The snag is that many such opportunities no longer exist in such a form because of the mad rush for FE establishments to turn themselves into universities over the last decade or so.

Just in Southampton we used to have a good university offering degree courses and a good College of Higher Education offering HNCs, BTechs, etc. What do we have now? Two universities and no College of Higher Education. Not far down the road was Portsmouth Poly, offering HNDs, etc. Guess what? Yep, that's a blasted uni as well.

Idiophreak

opinions4u wrote: »

At some point our Government screwed up when it decided 40%+ of 18 year olds should go to university. It's a ridiculous number as 40%+ of jobs patently don't need a degree.

I think what went wrong, really, was that people started viewing university purely as a means for improving employability - this is the link that hasn't always been there. Education should be a goal in its own right.

Historically, people studied English, or History, or Geography, because they were interested in the subject and wanted to learn more, not earn more. The fact that, when they graduated, people viewed them as a better employment prospect was just a fortuitous side affect. These days, there should be no sense of "entitlement" that going to uni will land you a good job...The graduates with the better grades, at the higher level, in the more useful subjects, from the better institutions will get the jobs. The rest should settle with the fact that they've had three (or more) amazing years learning more about something that interests them, then get on with life as normal. The trouble is, when students have to pay so much, it naturally gets viewed as an "investment" - but only comparatively few people will benefit in any real financial sense long term.

The complicating factor, really, is that employers keep insisting on degrees for jobs that simply don't require them, or the "higher level" thinking associated with being a graduate. It's these people that "force" young people into taking a degree whether they want to or not, whether they're interested in the subject or not, because they feel they "need" a degree in order to compete for jobs that simply don't require graduates.

kfm wrote: »

I agree that admission should be based on academic ability. I still believe that tuition fees should exist but that they should be based on what you or your parents can afford; parents as well as the state have a responsibility to educate the younger generation.

I personally feel this link is too strong already. People are 18 when they leave for university, they're grown ups...And to have the amount of support they're offered based on their parents' income seems completely backward to me...I knew people who coasted through uni as their parents were on low incomes - and people who really struggled, because their wealthy parents didn't offer them any additional support.

If uni's going to be open to all, the same financial support should be available to all. You can't rely on people's parents' funding their study.

StevieJ

Idiophreak wrote: »

I think what went wrong, really, was that people started viewing university purely as a means for improving employability - this is the link that hasn't always been there. Education should be a goal in its own right.

.

More likely to massage the unemployment numbers.

Hoof_Hearted

Of course, it has to be noted that the loans are not interest free and the debt is rising all the time a graduate earns less than around £23,000.