Solar Panel Guide Discussion

larkim

BornAtTheRightTime wrote: »

Hi, welcome to the forum.

If you take into account:
1) UK installers have been enjoying huge margins easily in the region of 40-50% and
2) that there is worldwide massive oversupply of PV panels and manufacturing capacity and that panel prices have dropped 70% in two years as a result;

Thanks for the welcome!

It might be true that installers are taking 40-50% margins, but in an entrepreneurial world that might be because that is the only margin that they'll accept, perhaps because they knew they would have to "get rich quick" as the party wouldn't last too long. And once that this high margin business has dried up, those businesses (or more importantly their shareholders) may look elsewhere for similar margins in different (or aligned) businesses.

Margin and volumes aren't the be all and end all in business; its the profit that results at the end of the day that counts.

Say an installer was doing 80 installs per year at £12k per install, and taking a 50% margin, generating £480k "profit". If the market dries up, and he has to cut his margin to make sales he might do 60 installs at £8k per install with a £2k margin (the costs of £6k per install assumed to remain the same) he'll only make £120k. That's ignoring the fact that his fixed costs (insurance, accountancy, back office, etc) all remain the same under both worlds. He might well consider that its not worth continuing in that same venture and would move out of the market.

What would you do? In the short term, you might not be able to get out of the industry quickly so you will probably cut your prices to keep cash flowing in, but its not likely to be sustainable.

Anyway, only time will tell!

Matt

KevinG

sinbinjack wrote: »

i have just today paid my deposit to green planet,I have an installation date of 26 november,will I still get the old FIT ? The sales man has said I definately will ,but reading about it I am now becoming unsure and worry my money will not be working for me as well as I had hoped. Can anyone shed any light on my dilema.
Jack

As posted by Dave Fowler, you will get the current rate as long as the system is accepted and registered by your chosen FiT provider before 12th December. It's not the installation date that is relevant and 26th November is cutting it very fine. You need to make sure you get the MCS certificate from your installer without delay after the installation and have the application ready to go. Download the form in advance from your FiT provider (usually your electricity supplier) if you can so that you are all ready.

I am concerned that there will be a deluge of registrations in late November and some companies may have difficulty processing them in time, especially those that have proved themselves less than efficient at processing FiT payments.

zeupater

larkim wrote: »

Thanks for the welcome!

It might be true that installers are taking 40-50% margins, but in an entrepreneurial world that might be because that is the only margin that they'll accept, perhaps because they knew they would have to "get rich quick" as the party wouldn't last too long. And once that this high margin business has dried up, those businesses (or more importantly their shareholders) may look elsewhere for similar margins in different (or aligned) businesses.

Margin and volumes aren't the be all and end all in business; its the profit that results at the end of the day that counts.

Say an installer was doing 80 installs per year at £12k per install, and taking a 50% margin, generating £480k "profit". If the market dries up, and he has to cut his margin to make sales he might do 60 installs at £8k per install with a £2k margin (the costs of £6k per install assumed to remain the same) he'll only make £120k. That's ignoring the fact that his fixed costs (insurance, accountancy, back office, etc) all remain the same under both worlds. He might well consider that its not worth continuing in that same venture and would move out of the market.

What would you do? In the short term, you might not be able to get out of the industry quickly so you will probably cut your prices to keep cash flowing in, but its not likely to be sustainable.

Anyway, only time will tell!

Matt

Hi

If that's the case then logic would dictate that vanloads of european installers will jump on the ferry, get the appropriate accreditation and simply fill the gap .... I was talking to a German aquaintance a couple of weeks ago and it seems that a ~4kWp system can now be bought quite easily there for ~€7k, fully installed ... don't forget that Germany isn't exactly a low labour cost ecomomy and that their installers won't be in business for nothing, so there must still be an acceptible margin even at that level ....

The big hole in the logic employed is that if there are 80 customers per year willing to buy at £12k, surely the would be more than 80 willing to buy at £8k, even with the reduced FiT, so assuming a requirement for a £2k margin delivering the same £480k profit they'll just need to up their work rate and install just under one system per normal working day, without allowing for likely upstream margin reductions at the wholesalers ..... so there's an alternative outcome using your own assumptions which is both manageable and returns the same profit .... remember, the more customers there are, the more likely they will be on your doorstep, so costly inefficiencies such as travel time are removed from the equation

HTH
Z

sinbinjack

KevinG wrote: »

As posted by Dave Fowler, you will get the current rate as long as the system is accepted and registered by your chosen FiT provider before 12th December. It's not the installation date that is relevant and 26th November is cutting it very fine. You need to make sure you get the MCS certificate from your installer without delay after the installation and have the application ready to go. Download the form in advance from your FiT provider (usually your electricity supplier) if you can so that you are all ready.

I am concerned that there will be a deluge of registrations in late November and some companies may have difficulty processing them in time, especially those that have proved themselves less than efficient at processing FiT payments.

I phoned NPower (my provider) about this and they said it would be OK I also asked if I could Email them the forms they said that would be OK as well but I will send the paperwork registered as well.I just hope I get in under the wire as I was not expecting to need to do this before March 2012.

mpn226

hi am in similar situation, have spoken to s&se microgeneration dept today, they say that provided all forms are received by midnight 11th dec they will register on existing tariff

jimjames

mpn226 wrote: »

hi am in similar situation, have spoken to s&se microgeneration dept today, they say that provided all forms are received by midnight 11th dec they will register on existing tariff

That would be good news if they all confirmed that. If we can get the forms to them in time then get the current rate whether they have processed them on their system or not would be reassuring.

TheToothfairy_3

I'm in a similar situation. Have an install date w/c 5th Dec! Have been told by the install
company that there is a clause in the accreditation scheme which means that we would
be due a refund if for any reason this doesn't go through in time and hence affects our
FIT level. I'm still blooming nervous about the whole thing now though! Stress I could
have done without really.

hp4020

I recently registered for FITs with British Gas. BG and my supply company CTS Solar were very efficient, System Installed 12th Oct, Commissioned and tested 13th October.
I had paid outstanding balance on 12th, I had MCS certificate via email on the night of the 12th, and final invoice.

One thing no one mentions on here, some FIT suppliers ( British Gas did) may also request photo ID documantation. BG said it was because I was not a BG supply customer.

So if you end up rushing things before the deadline, have a scan of your passport or driving licence on your pc ready to include with your application, mcs cert, and final invoice.

Good Luck !!

sly_dog_jonah

hp4020 wrote: »

So if you end up rushing things before the deadline, have a scan of your passport or driving licence on your pc ready to include with your application, mcs cert, and final invoice.

In addition to the above, EDF wanted proof of address so we had to send a scanned bank statement as well (despite being existing customers).

zeupater

TheToothfairy wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation. Have an install date w/c 5th Dec! Have been told by the install
company that there is a clause in the accreditation scheme which means that we would
be due a refund if for any reason this doesn't go through in time and hence affects our
FIT level. I'm still blooming nervous about the whole thing now though! Stress I could
have done without really.

Hi

I'd spend a little time looking for the clause if I was told that, it would seem to be a very strange clause indeed ....

If you can't find the clause, get the installer to put it in writing and guarantee any refund themselves ...

HTH
Z