Solar Panel Guide Discussion

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

We have had this discussion many times. In the cases you quote the expenditure is funded from Taxes and the wealthy(e.g. those who can afford PV panels;)) pay taxes.

The FIT system is completely different in that it is funded by a levy that the poorest in our society(pensioners etc) have no option but to contribute - as well as those who are unable to have solar PV e.g. flat occupants, those in rented accomodation, unsuitable roofs etc.

That levy is paid to those who who can afford £10,000 plus or venture capitalists financing 'Rent a roof' companies.

Hi

I think you have me confused with another ... I know how the FiT is funded.

There is an argument which would classify the levy as a tax and that's because I believe it's included as an indirect tax in government accounting circles.

A secondary argument could me made that the PFIs are simply a way of taking capital off the government's books, so depreciation etc disappears. To do this the public sector effectively leases the assets and pays a premium to do so .... the scale of the capital expenditure involved and the scale of the lease costs can be seen within the referenced Treasury report and if checked it is possible to see that the capital investment to return ratio isn't really too far from what is available within the FiT scheme. Relating this issue to whether it effects the 'poor' or not, well, if the public sector is paying more than necessary over the life of an asset then there's less money available for spending on necessary social schemes ... pensions, social housing, elderly care, winter heating allowances etc, etc, etc ..... so PFI could be said to directly impact the poor too ....

I don't know what the answer is ... I know that the government cheated a little and tried to hide a massive increase in debt by taking it off the books, but what else could they really do as they have/had obligations to keep debt in control and had already sold off the family silver through privatisation of almost everything possible .... I suppose that they just need to admit that they've got to pull their collective socks up, promote British industry and exports, and go back to doing things the hard way ....

Z

orrery

zeupater wrote: »

Hi
As noone else has made a stab at this to help you...wet finger in the air ..

Many thanks! Wouldn't that be 'slightly tanned finger in the air...' ?

Very interesting estimates:

Dark overcast, heavy rain = ~0% to 5%
Dark overcast, dry = ~0% to 5%
Light overcast = ~10%
50% cloud, no direct sun = ~25%
Clear winter day, full sun = ~ 75% to 80% (Frosty clear) .... ~60% (normal)
Clear summer day, full sun = ~75%

This implies more on bad days and less on perfect days than I would have expected.

KevinG

orrery wrote: »

This implies more on bad days and less on perfect days than I would have expected.

That suggests your expectations are fairly realistic - I suspect that a lot of people who are told that solar panels "only need daylight to work" are rather surprised to find that their output drops by 75% or so when a cloud appears on a bright summer's day.

TrickyDicky101

KevinG wrote: »

That suggests your expectations are fairly realistic - I suspect that a lot of people who are told that solar panels "only need daylight to work" are rather surprised to find that their output drops by 75% or so when a cloud appears on a bright summer's day.

I've found this: with major cloud cover even in the middle of the day, my output drops to c. 2.5% of peak.

lanstrom

KevinG wrote: »

That suggests your expectations are fairly realistic - I suspect that a lot of people who are told that solar panels "only need daylight to work" are rather surprised to find that their output drops by 75% or so when a cloud appears on a bright summer's day.

CLOUDS = EVIL

sly_dog_jonah

EST 'draft' docs leaked today, parliament announcement expected Monday:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/utilities/2011/10/solar-subsidy-to-be-slashed

grumpyoldsteve

lanstrom wrote: »

CLOUDS = EVIL

Sunshine = beautiful :cool2:

orrery

zeupater wrote: »

Clear winter day, full sun = ~ 75% to 80% (Frosty clear) .... ~60% (normal)
Clear summer day, full sun = ~75%

... which leads me to a further question:

So, under what conditions will I see the full 100% output?

grumpyoldsteve

orrery wrote: »

So, under what conditions will I see the full 100% output?

I would guess in full sunshine in the summer months, but not necessarily on the longest day of the year as there appears to be a small dip in the annual output graph mid summer (for my roof anyway), which I guess is related to the slope of the roof and when the sun is really high in the sky it would not shine daylight square onto the panels (as is the case also, as the days get shorter autumn through to spring)

Dave_Fowler

grumpyoldsteve wrote: »

I would guess in full sunshine in the summer months, but not necessarily on the longest day of the year as there appears to be a small dip in the annual output graph mid summer (for my roof anyway), which I guess is related to the slope of the roof and when the sun is really high in the sky it would not shine daylight square onto the panels.

This year my highest prolonged kW output occurred during the sunny days last April when the air temperature was relatively low. The output current went to the maximum the inverter could supply. At the beginning of October we had some equally sunny but very warm days when there was little or no wind. Output was reduced to 80% of peak due to the temperature of the panels.
Dave F