Solar Panel Guide Discussion

Foxy_Scott

Just joined so I could respond to this thread.

I've spent the morning reading all 355 posts as I am considering having panels installed and feel quite well informed now plus have enjoyed some of the debate, so thanks.

A summary of what I think I've learnt is:

• Feed in Tariffs FITs = generation rate (41.3p)+ export rate (3p).
• The generation rate is a huge subsidy without which the payback is ludicrously (too) long to make installation worthwhile.
• The export rate is for electric you don't use but goes back into the grid. Depending on personal circumstances your ability to use what you generate is limited since your requirement is variable with potential high demand spot requirements that may exceed the peak output of your system. Furthermore the system gives variable output over the day due to operating conditions such as clouds, temperature etc. Demand and supply cannot be matched as there is no storage. Average cost savings are therefore only £70 pa.
• Free systems giving a £70pa saving for a 25 year roof rental doesn't seem worth the hassle.
• Buying outright isn't about cost saving but income generation.
• Generally the exported quantity isn't metered and a 50% estimate is used.
• A typical c4KWp system costs £10-12k. Income generation c£1500pa, Payback estimates seem to be somewhere c8-12years.
• Consider what shade may impact on the performance of the system over the installation life e.g. trees, neighbours extensions etc.
• Roof pitch, house orientation and geographical location all impact on performance.
• Always use an MCS registered installer.
• Systems are not maintenance free expect an inverter at c£1k in 10 years time.

So given all the above what else do I think I need to understand to make my decision?

• The security of FITs. What's the likelihood of it disappearing within the next 8-12 years, payback time? There was one post stating this government say it's here to stay. But others saying changes in the administration could alter that. Is this a piece of strings length?
• Is there anything else that'd allow me to invest £10k and receive an annual income of the same value?
• What monitoring equipment did people get with their current installations for tracking and logging the systems performance, was it easy to use, was it extra? A geek's paradise!
• Panel comparisons, output per square meter vs. cost to give a vfm ranking, lengths of guarantees currently offered, HIT vs. c-Si panels?

Have I missed or misunderstood anything?

Thanks

John_Pierpoint

But when your panels/inverter break down you just pop next door and get an extension lead from their supply, They buy electricity at 5p per unit over night and you sell it back at 43p a unit - surely it cannot be that simple?
You don't even have to keep the neighbours awake with a diesel generator, as in the Spanish example discussed a few weeks back.

Seriously, today I got a mysterious 'phone call. I thought is was some sort of scam at first - like that 1960's instruction to put your telephone receiver into a bucket of water.
I't seems I have been living with economy 7 electricity and a Bosch dishwasher that should never be left on its own to do the dishes.
There are horror stories on two threads running on here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/45873667#Comment_45873667

It seems that there might be 600,000 Bosch made dishwashers out there that cannot cope with (modest?) voltage overloads, catch fire and pump out toxic black smoke - perhaps they have forgotten that the UK used to run on something between 240 and 250 volts?

As we attach more and more local sources of "green" electricity to the grid and as they work by generating electricity at a higher voltage level than the mains , thus "pushing" the power backwards into the local grid; IS IT LIKELY MORE OF THESE FAULTY DESIGNS WILL COME TO LIGHT?

BEKO yesterday, BOSCH today, ?????? tomorrow ?

John_Pierpoint

One for Cardew:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-07/19/solar-power-plant-truro

John_Pierpoint

Foxy_Scott wrote: »

Just joined so I could respond to this thread.

I've spent the morning reading all 355 posts as I am considering having panels installed and feel quite well informed now plus have enjoyed some of the debate, so thanks.

A summary of what I think I've learnt is:

• Feed in Tariffs FITs = generation rate (41.3p)+ export rate (3p). Gone up a bit 43.3 & 3.1
• A typical c4KWp system costs £10-12k. Income generation c£1500pa, Payback estimates seem to be somewhere c8-12years. You may find extras take the price out of that range unless you haggle - others can offer advice about whose technology to go with. Scaffolding is a major cost so ease of access to your roof is a factor. Method of bolting to roof rafters rather than tile battens could be important.

So given all the above what else do I think I need to understand to make my decision?

http://www.greendayrenewables.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/FITRatesApril2011.pdf

1jim

Hi

I have read through most pages of this now, quite keen to get these panels now but a question for you guys

I live in nottingham, roof faces east, not sure of pitch of roof. rear of roof gets sun in the morning, front of house in the afternoon. Is it possible to have panels on both sides of house to maximise generation and if it is possible, is there any point given the increase expense?

zeupater

1jim wrote: »

Hi

I have read through most pages of this now, quite keen to get these panels now but a question for you guys

I live in nottingham, roof faces east, not sure of pitch of roof. rear of roof gets sun in the morning, front of house in the afternoon. Is it possible to have panels on both sides of house to maximise generation and if it is possible, is there any point given the increase expense?

Hi

If you're fitting on two roof planes you'll need a twin tracker inverter such as the SB4000TL for 4kWp of panels. Extra expense would only be slightly more for the inverter and probably a bigger hit for the scaffolding .... guess - no more than £500(ish) more overall ....

HTH
Z

digitaltoast

thenudeone wrote: »

This possibility has been discussed before on the forums and is not nearly as likely as you think
Any FIT meter readings which are very signifcantly over the theoretical output would be likely to be flagged as suspicious and lead to an investigation.
To manage this, you would need to be able to connect and disconnect the routing through the generation meter easily.

Funny, because just today I saw an ad (of which there are similar all over the interwebs) suggesting the idea...

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What does that say to you?

1jim

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

If you're fitting on two roof planes you'll need a twin tracker inverter such as the SB4000TL for 4kWp of panels. Extra expense would only be slightly more for the inverter and probably a bigger hit for the scaffolding .... guess - no more than £500(ish) more overall ....

HTH
Z

have put my details through one of the calculators and it almost seems too good to be true, based on one side of roof with 2.9kWp system then could get nearly £30k profit over a 25 year period (after breaking even), a 4kWp system would make £40K over same term. Would there be any benefit (given these figures) of having panels on both sides of roof?

Foxy_Scott

dunloadin wrote: »

IF you have import/export meters fitted then you get something like 3p per KWh for the exported electricity, which will knock a few years off the above. But not everyone seems to have them, the DNO/suppliers reason being that not enough electricity is being generated to justify them, so a figure gets plucked out of thin air. This will be remedied when smart meters are rolled out as they can do import/export reads.

We had Eon fit Smart meters on Friday after reading their blurb about export readings for micro generation projects. I rang them yesterday to query two small points.

1) The clock was out by an hour. You cannot remedy this. They hope that at the next BST change it will right itself.

2) The meter was also showing usage within the last 28 days despite being fitted Friday. The comment was that the meters are tested before installing and this could be from those test periods.

Anyway the other thing that I learnt was that they are having problems with their Smart meters as they won't work with home generation schemes such as PV panels. They said that I'd have to have my old style meters put back in.

thenudeone

digitaltoast wrote: »

Funny, because just today I saw an ad (of which there are similar all over the interwebs) suggesting the idea...

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What does that say to you?

I've already discused it in post 11 here:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/45273140#Comment_45273140

If 4kW of panels could produce 3000 kWh pa for 25 years and they cost £10k, the average cost would be 13p/kWh.
I don't think the advert was advocating large-scale fraud!