Solar Panel Guide Discussion

zeupater

KevinG wrote: »

Why do your obligations not end there? Surely it is then up to the supplier to take appropriate action. There must be thousands of people with backwards-running meters and many of those won't even be aware of it; of those that are why would they think they have to inform their supplier separately from declaring it on the FiT registration? My understanding from previous posts on the subject is that they can only go back one year with their "correction."

Hi

"Why do your obligations not end there? Surely it is then up to the supplier to take appropriate action." .... probably something to do with the fact that your FiT partner and energy supplier aren't necessarily the same ..... I suppose that there would be a legally definable difference between a supplier recovering lost revenue due to meter inaccuracy and someone intentionally not disclosing the known issue because there was a financial incentive to do so (remember the reversing meter FiT application declaration) - so I suppose there's potential for debt recovery beyond the normal threshold .... either that or the possibility being stung for something without a short-term threshold like, say, fraud ??

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

KevinG wrote: »

Why do your obligations not end there? Surely it is then up to the supplier to take appropriate action. There must be thousands of people with backwards-running meters and many of those won't even be aware of it; of those that are why would they think they have to inform their supplier separately from declaring it on the FiT registration? My understanding from previous posts on the subject is that they can only go back one year with their "correction."

I'd agree with Z. The one year rule, as I understand it, is that they must bill you regularly to avoid you unintentionally building up a large debt. But if the fault is down to you, then I can't see how the one year rule would protect you.

In reality, calculating backwards units is next to impossible. The only method I can think would work, would be to change the meter then see what import takes place in the next year. But even that assumes consumption patters and import are the same, and you could argue that something changed.

With a backwards meter, how does anyone work out what reduction is down to PV generation displacing import, or PV export removing import.

Far better just to let the supplier know, then it's their problem, and hopefully if done quickly (notification) then no charge will be levied when the meter is finally replaced.

One possible 'escape route' is in the regs that concern leccy supply and metering. This is from memory, but basically they say something like 'the meter must work and be fit for purpose', later on they say something about this applying even if micro-generation exists. So I'm hopefully not reading in to it, when I say that meters aren't fit for purpose if they can't work with micro-gen.

BUT (that's was a big but) I also assume that the householder should make the supplier aware of the meter issue, so that a correct meter can be fitted, especially now that most FiT applications ask for it.

Mart.

EricMears

Bear in mind also that the 'supplier' and the 'FIT paying organisation' may not be the same company (and even if they are, half the time the FIT team don't talk to the billing team ).

I can't see any reason why the suppliers shouldn't be able to sue for lost revenue for the whole six year period to which the Statute of Limitations applies - unless of course you've advised supplier that you think their meter may be unfit for purpose (and if they decide to ignore your advice they'd accept liability for any errors).

1961Nick

The 1 year rule would only be reasonable if the billing error was their fault. If that weren't the case then you could fit pv, find another supplier for FIT & the meter could be running backwards until it was routinely upgraded.

Martyn1981

KevinG wrote: »

My understanding from previous posts on the subject is that they can only go back one year with their "correction."

Hiya Kevin and apologies. Eric's post made me realise an error in my post. If you're suggesting they can only go back one year, after they've been notified of a backwards meter, then I'd suspect you are absolutely correct.

I was thinking (earlier post) that the 1 year rule was being used to hide behind without notifying any issue to the supplier.

If the FiT form clearly shows that you think the meter could go backwards, or you have a copy of an e-mail (details of a phone call) notifying them of the issue, then again, I'd suspect you are right, and that they should resolve the issue, preventing the building up of a debt for more than 1 year.

Mart.

KevinG

Martyn1981 wrote: »

If the FiT form clearly shows that you think the meter could go backwards, ...

Hi Mart,

It does (two of them actually for two different systems) and my FiT provider is the same as my supplier. I have a copy of one of the two forms (the earlier one) and the wording is "Since installation, has your supply meter begun moving backwards?" Maybe I'll ask Scottish Power when they are planning to install a smart meter.

EricMears

KevinG wrote: »

Hi Mart,

It does (two of them actually for two different systems) and my FiT provider is the same as my supplier. I have a copy of one of the two forms (the earlier one) and the wording is "Since installation, has your supply meter begun moving backwards?" Maybe I'll ask Scottish Power when they are planning to install a smart meter.

Scottish power were our supplier when we installed the panels and are still our FIT provider. No problems with my metering but I am painfully aware that their FIT department & billing department appear to be operating on different planets !

Don't ask them about smart meters ! A smart meter has lots of advantages for the suppliers but very few for the consumer. One 'feature' - selective disconnection - would be disastrous (for both parties but don't expect them to work it out for themselves !) for a panel owner.

But it would be a very good idea to contact Scottish Power to remind them that your FIT application form advised that their meter didn't seem to be suitable for purpose and telling them that you are keeping meticulous records that will enable you accurately to calculate the errors that are accruing.

KevinG

Hi Eric and thanks for your reply.

EricMears wrote: »

Don't ask them about smart meters ! A smart meter has lots of advantages for the suppliers but very few for the consumer.

OK, Maybe not the best approach then.

EricMears wrote: »

and telling them that you are keeping meticulous records that will enable you accurately to calculate the errors that are accruing.

I don't think I need meticulous records. My argument (and I have said this before) is that the only sensible way of calculating any underpayment is on the basis of generation, not consumption. It is the amount of generation exported that will have distorted the reading. It is assumed that 50% of generation is exported (I don't know how accurate that is in my case but it will do as a starting point), so if you must bill me, bill me for 50% of the units I have generated. That will then lead to a separate argument about what proportion of those should be billed at the night rate - I have a Micro CHP boiler as well as Solar PV, so it's not so straightforward, but I'd probably settle for about 20%. Such fun ahead!

EricMears

KevinG wrote: »

I don't think I need meticulous records.

You probably don't - but telling them that you are in a position to challenge any 'estimate' they produce would probably deter them from asking for anything too silly.

KevinG

I have detailed records going back 18 years so I should be ok.