Solar Panel Guide Discussion

Martyn1981

what_the_.... wrote: »

Hi,
Has anyone any experience of conergy pv solar panels and Hyundai solar panels, the reason I ask is that there is a two grand difference in price,

Hiya WT, me again, I missed a bit out. Just checked panel prices on one on-line store. Not very scientific, and prices are retail (but before VAT, since you'd have to pay 20%, but as part of a MCS install, the VAT would be 5%).

I found Hyundai 250W monocrystalline panels for £171. Couldn't find (at the same shop) a direct match with Conergy, but close enough, got an all black mono 250W for £175, and a regular 250W polycrystaline (not quite a match for a mono) for £150.

I've got some black on black panels and they were about £8 more than regulars, so that puts the Conergy's just below, but in the same ballpark as the Hyundias.

As I said, not a very scientific comparison, but no apparent (large) difference in price.

Mart.

Cardew

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks Eric,

These are the figures quoted by the energy saving trust on their website so i think some kind of inflation index must be factored in.
£7000 over 25 years in a basic fixed rate savings (3%) account returns well over £12500 that`s after tax.

However £7,050 is way above the going rate for even a 4kWp system.

Then if you invest each year(at your 3%) all the money you save from reduced bills and FIT income, you come to another total.

Then the cost of any repairs needed??

Etc Etc.

Martyn1981

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Hi all,

I have just spent some time on the energy saving trust website and got figures of £9500 earnings from an investment of £7050 over the life time of the panels. We are located in the West Midlands with a 30% pitch and west facing roof. Having surveyed our local estate the take up rate for solar panels i would say is 3 on well over 500 houses.
Am i missing something as i cant see how under any circumstances this venture makes any kind of financial sense at all!

Hello good Knight. I've had a go at some numbers for you, but obviously they are only guesses and estimates.

For a 4kWp install in Birmingham, west facing at 30d pitch, PVGIS estimates annual generation of 3,10kWhs.

Income streams will be approximately:
FIT 3,010 @ 14.9p (from 1/7/13) = £450
Export (50% deemed) 1,505 @ 4.64p = £70
Leccy savings (£80 to £150) = £110
Total £630

You'll need to hunt around for a good price, especially being west facing (about 20% less than south facing). Target prices were under £6k, but the Chinese tariff war is messing things up. But still aim for £6k.

A while back I slapped together a cheap spreadsheet to compare interest v's income.

Part 1 just looks at the cash savings account, with compound growth for 20 years.
Part 2 looks at the PV income, with inflation growth, and panel degradation.
Part 3 takes part 2, but assumes all income and leccy savings are re-invested, earning interest and compounded (as per pt1), and deducts money for a replacement inverter (from the running total) at year 12.

Interest rates are assumed at 3%, inflation at 3%, degradation at 0.5%, and replacement inverter at £1,200.

Entering £7k into part 1, and £630 into part 2 & 3 gives 20 year totals of:
P1 - £12,642.78
P2 - £16,068.86
P3 - £19,509.80

Entering £6k, gives a compounded 20 year total of £10,836.67.

Very basic, and admittedly I've not allowed for any maintenance, other than an inverter, as it's hard to know if or what there will be. But in exchange I've also ignored PV income/savings from years 21 onwards, after the FIT has ended, hopefully the panels will work for 30 years or more, but by year 20 may be down to 80% to 90% efficiency.

Mart.

orrery

Cardew wrote: »

Then the cost of any repairs needed??

Indeed - I've got a roof leak under the panels (nothing to do with the PV install - an existing issue that had been previously 'fixed' (twice). The PV being there is going to add significantly to the cost of the roof repair.

The_Green_Hornet

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

£7000 over 25 years in a basic fixed rate savings (3%) account returns well over £12500 that`s after tax.

I doubt if you can find a basic fixed rate savings account that will pay 3% after tax.

Cardew

The_Green_Hornet wrote: »

I doubt if you can find a basic fixed rate savings account that will pay 3% after tax.

He hasn't said 3% after tax. That sum(£12,500) is 3% gross then tax deducted.

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

He hasn't said 3% after tax. That sum(£12,500) is 3% gross then tax deducted.

Nope Green Hornet is right, that is after tax not before (or tax exempt). Which is what Sirlaughalot said:

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

Thanks Eric,

£7000 over 25 years in a basic fixed rate savings (3%) account returns well over £12500 that`s after tax.

Try it yourself if you don't believe GH:

1.03 to the power 20 * £7,000 = £12,642.78

To get the same result on a taxable rate, you'd need 3.75% which equates to 3% after tax (for a basic rate taxpayer).

Mart.

Cardew

Read the post again
The OP said £7000 over 25 years.

EricMears

3% gross would leave 2.4% for a 20% rate taxpayer.

£7000 @2.4% for 25 years would yield £12,664.76

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

Read the post again
The OP said £7000 over 25 years.

That's a fair point, maybe I shouldn't have corrected for the error, and applied an extra 5 years PV income (non FIT) and compounding.

It's looking better and better for the OP!

Mart.