Solar Panel Guide Discussion

khris210

From 17/11/10 to 10/7/11 my 2.2 kw system has generated 1418 kw. My meter goes backwards (yipee) reading on 17/11/10 was 58563 and is now 10/7/11 58784= 221 units. Over the past 4 years we have been in this house our usage has been on average 7,5 kw a day not varying very much over the year. So our bill would have been £300 approx p.a. On the 1/6/11 I had generated 960 kw and racked up 360 units to be paid for = £40 (inc standing charge) Double it for the year (is that reasonable?) =FIT £417x 2 =£834 plus £220=£1054. Cost of system £10500/1054= 10%. These figs are approx since FIT altered during the time and I haven't been actually been paid yet for the second tranche, but they are close enough, surely. We are retired and live in Norfolk. If you want any more info, ask.

Cardew

khris210 wrote: »

. My meter goes backwards (yipee)

If you want any more info, ask.

1. Do you think that your meter running backwards is legal?

2. Do you think that the Electricity company will try to reclaim the money they have lost?

3. Do you think this situation will last?

John_Pierpoint

I know of an example that has lasted 18 months so far.
:eek:

We "all" know the saga of the fraud proof meter that has been adding up the units, regardless of their direction - what a fiasco.
:eek:

You just cannot get the staff these days:rotfl:

dunloadin

I’d like to echo ivavouchers post, Cardew is playing devils advocate well, and may rub the odd poster up the wrong way, but does make some valid points on what appears to be a ‘marmite’ subject. Been reading through this thread and there are some interesting points being put around by all, just thought I’d add my take on the PV boom we seem to be seeing at the moment.

The way I see it the elephant in the room is the FIT payment….without which the viability of installing PV (and other) systems from a money saving (or making) perspective would be nil.

Even if you got a saving of £200 a year on your bills it would take a lifetime plus to recoup the initial investment; i.e. a system costing 15 grand to install will take 75 years….thats before any maintenance or new inverters (10 year life) are factored in. I was speaking to an installer up this way and he reckoned 60 years.

IF you have import/export meters fitted then you get something like 3p per KWh for the exported electricity, which will knock a few years off the above. But not everyone seems to have them, the DNO/suppliers reason being that not enough electricity is being generated to justify them, so a figure gets plucked out of thin air. This will be remedied when smart meters are rolled out as they can do import/export reads.

Lets not be too naïve, the recent massive price hikes in fuel bills…with more to come no doubt, will have factored in all the extra outgoings that the micro generators are taking; and some of the costs that the imminent smart meter rollout. Suppliers wont admit it, as those without FIT payments will not be happy bunnys.

If some future minister were to change the legislation (we all know how fickle politicians can be) and the FIT payments were to stop or be greatly reduced it’s fair to say that the rent a roof and private installations of PV systems would stop overnight. Of course all those on the outrage bus would have to swap with those off it.

Local authorities seem to have missed a trick here, I would have thought that council buildings and housing estates would be sprouting PV systems all over the country to help subsidise their budgets. With the chance to make a few bob and get that all important ‘green’ tick in the box, it seems strange they’re not; maybe they know something we don’t.

grahamc2003

dunloadin wrote: »

Lets not be too naïve, the recent massive price hikes in fuel bills…with more to come no doubt, will have factored in all the extra outgoings that the micro generators are taking; and some of the costs that the imminent smart meter rollout. Suppliers wont admit it, as those without FIT payments will not be happy bunnys.

.

I wish the latest increase did factor in 'all' the extra 'renewable' costs - but we are just at the start of the rises, with the extra 'green' costs rising quickly from here. Obviously, as more pv is installed, there'll be mre to pay in fits, as more windmills are built, he subsidy for those wil increase quite quickly; then there are the costs of connecting future windfarm to the grid, and grid upgrades in remote areas which will experience large powerflows (occasionally) whereas today they handle small powerflows. Also, as opposed to that voluntary cost of these green initiatives (which produce tiny amounts of reliable electricity), we have no choice in rapidly building several more Nuclear stations to replace those which, in a few years, will reach the end of their lives. I think we can expect 20/30/40% pa increases for several years yet, as well as increasing elements in income tax as rhi and other subsidies funded via that route increase over the years.

But the suppliers do 'admit' the loadings on our bills to pay for these things - british gsa poduced figures, currenty 13% iirc on each electricity bill (being rather alarmingly imo 37% of the actual electricity cost in our eletricty bills). I havent seen them produce future percentages of bills going into green initiatives - they are probably prevented from doing so by being politiclly unacceptable. Why these high and rising future costs aren't declared to the public is a travesty imv. If the true future costs were known by the general public, then I'm certain in my own mind that the public support for all these windmills/fits/rhi/other subsidies would pretty well evaporate overnight.

KevinG

Cardew wrote: »

1. Do you think that your meter running backwards is legal?

2. Do you think that the Electricity company will try to reclaim the money they have lost?

3. Do you think this situation will last?

I have an analogue meter that runs backwards when my net consumption is negative, I have been totally up-front about it when I registered (answering the question "does your meter run backwards" with "yes"), how can that possibly be illegal? The onus is on the electricity supplier to change the meter and if they do so, obviously I can't complain, but I will try to insist on getting an export meter at the same time.

keith_r59

Cardew wrote: »

1. Do you think that your meter running backwards is legal?

Depends what you have done to make it run backwards. Installing Solar PV isn't illegal so as long as you have informed your supplier that you have done so you are not breaking any laws as far as I can see.

Cardew wrote: »

2. Do you think that the Electricity company will try to reclaim the money they have lost?

Yes, they will be entitled to reclaim but they will need to abide by their code of practice for back billing and use a fair estimate of the energy used.

Cardew wrote: »

3. Do you think this situation will last?

This all depends on how quickly the energy supplier reacts to being told that you have had a Solar PV system installed. Maybe some users can post some actual experiences?

zeupater

KevinG wrote: »

I have an analogue meter that runs backwards when my net consumption is negative, I have been totally up-front about it when I registered (answering the question "does your meter run backwards" with "yes"), how can that possibly be illegal? The onus is on the electricity supplier to change the meter and if they do so, obviously I can't complain, but I will try to insist on getting an export meter at the same time.

Hi

I agree with your post.

I think that the issue of legality would only arise if a meter was known to be running backwards and that householder withheld this information from their DNO or energy provider. When you think about it, as a result of deregulation of the UK energy market and the introduction of microgeneration technologies, everything is becoming very complicated ... you can have three different companies acting as your supplier, DNO & FiT partner. However, one thing is quite clear, your contract for energy supply is with the currently chosen supply partner and the contracted supply partner is the one which will chase any payment which they believe is owed, not the DNO, and not the FiT partner.

After considering the situation, my own thoughts are that if my meter ran backwards I would definately contact my supplier and ensure that they were fully aware of the situation and request that the metering problem was rectified within a reasonable timescale. If the supplier decides to not have the DNO or other agent rectify the issue within the reasonable timescale then any consequential losses of revenue should be considered as being their own fault and they should not reasonably expect to attempt to recover what they would classify as being losses.

HTH
Z

Cardew

keith_r59 wrote: »

Depends what you have done to make it run backwards. Installing Solar PV isn't illegal so as long as you have informed your supplier that you have done so you are not breaking any laws as far as I can see.



Yes, they will be entitled to reclaim but they will need to abide by their code of practice for back billing and use a fair estimate of the energy used.



This all depends on how quickly the energy supplier reacts to being told that you have had a Solar PV system installed. Maybe some users can post some actual experiences?

Agree absolutely, if you have told your supplier you are in the clear.

However several people have posted about their backward running meter, and I get the impression that some think that is how it is supposed to work.

In another thread someone used the value of all the generated electricity at 13p/kWh, in addition to FIT and 50% of exported electricity @ 3.1p/kWh, to work out an annual return on investment and payback time.

Also some smaller companies are exempt from administering FIT payments. You could be getting electricity from them(Company A) and your FITs from Company B.

It is a fair bet that Company B would not alert Company A.

hansi

Just had a leaflet through the door fromm Ecovison offering me free everything. Solar panels, installation, maintenance and electricity! Must be a catch somewhere. If it's too good to be true, it usually is. I've emailed for a quote and see what they have to say. Anyone else had dealings with them?