Solar Panel Guide Discussion

Martyn1981

orrery wrote: »

The idea has been around for a good while. It is described in David MacKays's book "Renewable Energy without the Hot Air" and is being looked at by the Desertec Foundation:
http://www.desertec.org/en/concept/

The only sensible place to put large solar farms is in desert locations where there is no competition for agricultural land.

Cheers Orrery, I'm sure you've read it already, but I found the 'Greater-East-Asia' section very interesting.

http://www.desertec.org/en/global-mission/focus-region-greater-east-asia/

It's all go, isn't it!

Mart.

Cardew

orrery wrote: »

The only sensible place to put large solar farms is in desert locations where there is no competition for agricultural land.

We had this discussion earlier this year.

The attraction of the desert(N Africa for Europe) is obviously the weather. However the security problems in guarding huge solar farms and supply lines in unstable areas are insurmountable - which is what I suspect John above was alluding to with his reference to 'The Muslim state of Libya'?

There really doesn't have to be competition with agricultural land. This farm in Portugal is an example:

A large photovoltaic power project, the Serpa solar power plant, has been completed in Portugal, in one of the Europe's sunniest areas.[1] The 11 megawatt plant covers 150 acres (0.61 km2) and comprises 52,000 PV panels. The panels are raised 2 metres off the ground and the area will remain productive grazing land. The project will provide enough energy for 8,000 homes and will save an estimated 30,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions per year.[2][3]

Indeed a proposed large solar farm in UK mentioned earlier in this thread has the same principle - panels raised on stilts.

Incidentally there are vast areas in central Spain that are scrubland without any form of agriculure.

orrery

Cardew wrote: »

The attraction of the desert(N Africa for Europe) is obviously the weather. However the security problems in guarding huge solar farms and supply lines in unstable areas are insurmountable - which is what I suspect John above was alluding to with his reference to 'The Muslim state of Libya'?

Well of course, we buy much (probably most) of our current energy (oil and gas) from unstable states. However, self interest seems to kick in when they realise that they have a resource and a customer - so insurmountable? No.

There really doesn't have to be competition with agricultural land.....Incidentally there are vast areas in central Spain that are scrubland without any form of agriculure.

I agree. Much of it seems to be mutually exclusive though. However you look at it, both agriculture and solar need sun and so are competing for the same resource. I guess if there are areas with too much sun, the solar could remove some of that to return it to useful agriculture.

The two needn't compete - if I drive a mile from my home to a small hill and look down on the town of Bedford I see an absolutely unbelievable area of roof-space facing skywards. Notwithstanding the debates here, we need to find a way of covering this area with solar PV until we are faced with the problem of what to do with the surplus energy we are generating. At least that way we will face up to solving the problems of storage.

If we leave it too late, we'll be back negotiating with "The Muslim states of <insert your own list>" for more oil and gas.

pwllbwdr

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Finally, for what is the "ct" a unit of measurement? (it is used in the domestic diagram for 2016 where spare PV is being dumped into a heat store tank, shared by a "boiler" (perhaps wood pellet fuelled)).

I imagine it is "cent" - probably Euro-cent.

The_Green_Hornet

The Prime Minister, David Cameron, has talked up solar PV’s potential to help the UK diversify its energy mix as well as curtail its escalating carbon emissions during a visit to his local constituency in Witney, Oxfordshire.

The Prime Minister was on hand to open a new 12.56kWp solar array situated on the roof of Eynsham’s village hall. The solar installation is the first step in an ambitious local scheme called the People’s Power Station.

Local green group, the Low Carbon Hub has worked closely with Oxfordshire Council to develop the People’s Power Station scheme. Oxfordshire hosts the UK’s second largest polluting power plant, Didcot A – a 2,000MW coal and gas-fired behemoth that is due to be shut down at the end of 2015 because it fails to meet European Comission carbon emission standards.

David Cameron hails solar PV’s potential in the UK

Cardew

orrery wrote: »

Well of course, we buy much (probably most) of our current energy (oil and gas) from unstable states. However, self interest seems to kick in when they realise that they have a resource and a customer - so insurmountable? No.



.

Instead of 'insurmountable' perhaps I should have said 'not cost effective'.

I don't think self-interest matters to terrorist organisations like Al-Qaeda. Refineries in places like Saudi are guarded like Fort Knox and security measures cost £millions.

Even the new Gas Storage installations in UK, have formidable security; the days are gone when these would be built in the community.



The IRA targetted a similar 'gasometer' in Ulster in the 1970's.

Unlike refineries that produce oil worth many millions, it simply wouldn't be cost effective to provide similar security for solar farms.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

... Unlike refineries that produce oil worth many millions, it simply wouldn't be cost effective to provide similar security for solar farms.

Hi

I think that a significant level of security would still be required as solar panels are both pretty portable compared to oil refineries and would have a developing-world market value across the African Continent far beyond their scrap value ....

You can imagine the headlines now .... 'Powerstation Vanishes Overnight ... Police completely in the dark" ....

HTH
Z

ed110220

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

I think that a significant level of security would still be required as solar panels are both pretty portable compared to oil refineries and would have a developing-world market value across the African Continent far beyond their scrap value ....

You can imagine the headlines now .... 'Powerstation Vanishes Overnight ... Police completely in the dark" ....

HTH
Z

You joke but I remember a few years ago it was reported that there were widespread power cuts in Zambia and Zimbabwe after someone pulled down an electricity pylon for the scrap metal!

Martyn1981

Cardew wrote: »

I
Unlike refineries that produce oil worth many millions, it simply wouldn't be cost effective to provide similar security for solar farms.

Could be true. Probably best then just to pop them up on roofs in smaller numbers where they are a little safer, and no annual running costs like land, insurance and security to worry about.

Mart.

John_Pierpoint

Cardew wrote: »

Instead of 'insurmountable' perhaps I should have said 'not cost effective'.

I don't think self-interest matters to terrorist organisations like Al-Qaeda. Refineries in places like Saudi are guarded like Fort Knox and security measures cost £millions.

Even the new Gas Storage installations in UK, have formidable security; the days are gone when these would be built in the community.



The IRA targetted a similar 'gasometer' in Ulster in the 1970's.

Unlike refineries that produce oil worth many millions, it simply wouldn't be cost effective to provide similar security for solar farms.

The IRA also had a go at the tank farm on Canvey Island - however nobody had the sense to get out of the car bomb and bang the tank with a spanner.

The car bomb rattled windows within a 5 - 10 mile radius and completely wrecked an empty tank.

Now that we have an inter connector for gas with Norway, it is less likely that Russia can make us shiver, but the idea that a French cartoon magazine might turn off the lights is a bit disturbing.