Solar Panel Guide Discussion

ronlizpatsimon

Hello Martyn,
I think I had better use my TV as an ornament only.
When in use it uses 370w + the separate surround sound amplifier, the DVD player, the separate Woofer and the amplifier which powers the transducers which cause the chairs to vibrate when low frequencies are generated. I,m feeling guilty now!

Martyn1981

I still think it was worth making a fuss. The little stuff adds up.

Legislation brought in more efficient lighting, and just the threat of legislation has lead to an enormous reduction in stand-by wastage. Harping on about it worked.

As regards turning down thermostats, well, yeah you got me there. So simple, and quick to re-acclimatise, if I could just get my sister and family to stop turning TRV's up and down and opening windows! I can't remember altering a TRV for years (probably gunk up now!). Sister is convinced the room heats up faster if you turn the TRV 'up'. Never successfully managed to explain the difference between faster and further.

So, what's the next household issue/fix? Is there an easy one?

Edit: hello ronlizpatsimon, Oops, never meant you to feel guilty. Now, next time the rugby's on can I pop round......?

Mart.

zeupater

EricMears wrote: »

But let's not forget the old sayings : "Many a mickle maks a muckle" & "Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves" !

i.e. if 50 million people all save 1 watt each they've managed to save 50MW in total

Hi

I agree, but everything really does need to be considered within context .....

Here is the breakdown of UK domestic energy usage for 2009 in millions of tonnes of oil equivalent .... Source ONS (http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/publications/ecuk/ecuk.aspx) (Domestic data tables / Table 3.8)

Space Heating - 32.3
Water heating - 9.4
Cooking - 2.3
Lights & Appliances - 22.9
Total - 66.9

... Therefore concentrating on appliance standby can only be a minor part of the lights and appliances element, whilst simply knocking the thermostat back by 0.5C on an average +10C heating provision would likely cut the national domestic carbon footprint by 2.4% ((32.3/66.9)*.05) with no cost outlay and probably no-one really appreciating the temperature difference.

HTH
Z

grahamc2003

EricMears wrote: »

But let's not forget the old sayings : "Many a mickle maks a muckle" & "Look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves" !

i.e. if 50 million people all save 1 watt each they've managed to save 50MW in total

While obviously correct, such statements are in fact a logical fallacy in this context - something the referenced Dr McKay adresses in his free book (which should be compulsary reading for everybody and part of the National curriculum imv).

You can always take a tiny saving and make it appear a large saving by mutliplying it by a big number - mathematically correct, but pragmatically worthless. Instead of a tiny saving, if you treat a large saving in the same manner, you get an extremely large saving - e.g. if 50 million people all saved 1kW (by for example turning their central heating down a degree or two as suggested) then the saving is 50GW, or the power of 30 or 40 Nuclear powerstations (and I know CH is usually gas, to preempt some in their reply).

As usualy, scale is a problem. As Z said, someone could trun their tv standby off religiously all year, and then use the total energy saved in 20 minutes extra CH use. The resources used to get people to make micro saving would be much better spent on getting them to make substantive savings.

The other point is that all electricity use almost always results in a heat contribution to the house - e.g. a 1W standby contributes 1W of heating, which will be netted off the heating requirements of the house, causing a thermostat controlled CH system to fire a few minutes less each year. In the UK, that heating is useful (a tiny bit useful in the example given, but much more useful for those still with banks of 50W halogens in their kitchens) for the majority of months in the year.

Also, ime, those who stick to sayings such as 'look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves' usually end up in life with a few pennies.

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

... Therefore concentrating on appliance standby can only be a minor part of the lights and appliances element, whilst simply knocking the thermostat back by 0.5C on an average +10C heating provision would likely cut the national domestic carbon footprint by 2.4% ((32.3/66.9)*.05) with no cost outlay and probably no-one really appreciating the temperature difference.

HTH
Z

But the cost element of more efficient lighting and less 'hungry' appliance stand-by's, should also be small, and hopefully largely absorbed now into new manufacturing lines. With stand-by's in particular it was really just a matter of nudging the industry (rather forcefully) into completing the move.

But I admit to being on very thin ice if I claim that nobody's noticed a difference in lighting with CFL's! Still I like em.

Mart.

ronlizpatsimon

Good point Graham - about the electrical use not being lost, but adding to the house heat. Even that does not consider all the facts. The gain in heat from electrical appliances is only useful in the winter. Even then, although 1kw of appliance heat used in the winter (and costing 12p) saves 1kw of gas heating, which only would have cost 4p

Cardew

ronlizpatsimon wrote: »

Even then, although 1kw of appliance heat used in the winter (and costing 12p) saves 1kw of gas heating, which only would have cost 4p

The same reasoning applies to those who seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to use excess PV capacity to heat water with an immersion heater.

jamesingram

As baseload nuclear is generating 24/7 does turning the TV off (even if it 10 million TVs) at the plug at night achieve any reduction in primary energy usage.
I presume not.

Space Heating - 32.3
Water heating - 9.4
Cooking - 2.3
Lights & Appliances - 22.9
Total - 66.9
Z's link shows clearly the areas that need to be concerntrated on to reduce primary energy use and it's resultant environmental negatives with regard to domestic housing.
Simple order of priority of action
Insulate , improve airtightness/reduce drafts
low energy lamps
A++ appliances as an when upgrading (especially fridge/freezer)

orrery

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I still think it was worth making a fuss. The little stuff adds up.

It does, but we really do need to focus on real measures to deal with the problems we face. We need signalling over the mains to indicate energy availability, we need intelligent appliances that take power when it is available and don't when it isn't.

This is all do-able with current technology but we need it in place before the proverbial hits the fan.

We really can't let the government get away with campaigns about turning off the little red LEDs overnight because that is just aggregating their responsibility.

Repeat after me "If we all concentrate on the small things, we'll only ever make small savings."

slacky555

Stay away from HOMESUN

Thought I would update a few people on here after trying to buy out my contract from homesun of the solar panels I had fitted.

Since the end of Jan 12 i am still in the process of completing the process in my opinion.

I do now own the panels but that took a good month or so. But the major thing for me is the removal of right of my roof from the land registery!

I have called homesun several times no one knows what anyone is doing! I am told I will get call back but never do. When I do speak with the correct department I am given promises which ate never kept. So today I am still waiting on the latest call back from them. And according to the gentleman I spoke with nothing has still been done.

So to anyone with HOMESUN solar panels that ha or wishes to buy out of the contract just be sure they do remove the right over your roof from the land registry.

And to anyone looking at free solar again with this in mind just think if anything was to go wrong with your install how helpful or NOT they may be.

And if anyone from Homesun reads this then please sort yourselves out!

You will know who I am as from what you have said you have only had 2 people so far buy the system from you.