Solar Panel Guide Discussion

Martyn1981

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

It is a pack of lies.

The solar sales model/pitch is similar to a Ponzi scheme.....

Give me £15,000 today and I'll give you back £1000 for the next ten years...at which point your investment will be worthless and the £1000 eroded by inflation and maintenance/repairs.

Oops, I appreciate that you are trying to help by warning people of miss-selling, and that is a genuine problem, and you are right to be concerned. But you need to be a little more realistic with the statements.

Solar is not a Ponzi scheme, Ponzi schemes pay out fake dividends from the new investments coming in. Another name for them is pyramid schemes. PV FITs is neither.

Your cost illustration is a little out.

How's about I give you £9k, and you give me £1k back every 9 out of 10 years (keeping £1k back in yr10 for a new inverter). You do this for 25 years.

There is little to no maintenance and income is index linked to protect it from inflation. So in todays money, £9k in and £23k out, or £9k investment returned, plus £14k interest over 25 year period.

It's not the best investment in the world, it's not the worst.

Yes they can be oversold, but be careful of under-selling it too.

Mart.

Oopsadaisy

Every dodgy double glazing and mobility aid scammer is now moving into solar.

The number of mis-selling complaints is going to rocket over the next few yrs.

jamesingram

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

Every dodgy double glazing and mobility aid scammer is now moving into solar.

The number of mis-selling complaints is going to rocket over the next few yrs.

opps i think you're about 1 1/2 to late.

My guess s they'll be slowly moving on to other angles as the big profits dwindle with the tarrif reductions

Oopsadaisy

You misunderstand...they don't profit from using the systems, they profit from selling systems to people [typically elderly] on the basis of 'energy crisis', and false returns promises.

jamesingram

Sorry, I meant 'big profits dwindle' for installer companies . so yes I was following you.

Miss selling been happening in pv/solar way before even FITs started , just increase with FITs as market grew .
As ever if people are unwilling to get several quotes from a variety of installer types , then these type of ponces will find easy pickings , ASA have been on the case of false 'green' sustainable advertising claims , but unfortunatley seem only able to act after the horse has bolted.

The big DG companies are still stitching up old/vunerable people every day of the week and have been for years , shamefull really.

cheers

wuthton

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

You misunderstand...they don't profit from using the systems, they profit from selling systems to people [typically elderly] on the basis of 'energy crisis', and false returns promises.

I fail to see your argument here, the majority of people who've signed up to the FIT are perfectly happy with their returns. The more compelling argument is the return is far too generous to offer value for money for the tax payer/other electric consumers.

larkim

Oopsadaisy wrote: »

You misunderstand...they don't profit from using the systems, they profit from selling systems to people [typically elderly] on the basis of 'energy crisis', and false returns promises.

Give examples please to back up your assertion.

I can't disagree that if I was advising a 90 year old for whom I had no interest in their Will, then investment in a solar array would likely be a waste of money. But I haven't heard of an epidemic of this.

Most rational people here believe that the economics of a solar installation under the 41p FIT scheme are sound, providing the installation price isn't astronomical. There are concerns that some of the prices being sold at are perhaps excessively profitable for the installation company, but last time I looked there was no law against making lots of money or requiring companies to be transparent about their profit margins on a sale-by-sale basis.

Having said that, I have seen for myself at least one installation located on a WNW facing roof where either a) the occupants are solar evangelists who want it at any price b) the occupants were mis-sold the system on false promises or c) they are just idiots with more money than sense.

Matt

Cardew

larkim wrote: »

Most rational people here believe that the economics of a solar installation under the 41p FIT scheme are sound,
Matt

Unless your definition of 'sound' is different to mine, that is an extraordinary statement!

Would, say, 86p/kWh be even more 'sound'?

orrery

Cardew wrote: »

Unless your definition of 'sound' is different to mine, that is an extraordinary statement!

Would, say, 86p/kWh be even more 'sound'?

Bearing mind that we have been discussing solar 'mis-selling' and comparing it with Ponzi schemes then, to me at least, 'sound' clearly means financially sound for the investor getting a good return. In that context 86p would be twice as sound!

.. inasmuch as you can describe any contract with the government as 'sound'

Dave_Fowler

MrInvestor wrote: »

I understand the payback on Solar Thermal Panels can be as little as 5 years now! So if you invest £2500 to have them installed, including the heat exchange equipment, you'll be saving around £500 off your heating bill a year (so I hear). They still work when it is overcast. If you live in a house, it sounds like it is worth doing!!

Photovoltaic solar panels/tiles have a longer payback in the UK, because they hardly produce any electricity when it is overcast. How many really sunny days do we have a year? The technology also costs a lot more. Maybe this will improve over the next 5 years.

I'm spending about £2.50 per week on (gas) heating the hot water during the summer. Perhaps a little higher in the winter because of the lower cold supply water temperature and greater losses. Let's say an average of £3 a week. This is a far cry from the £500 per year. I've not seen a system of using solar thermal to supply central heating - especially during winter evenings / nights when the heating is required.

I'd like to see the calculations where the £500 figure came from.

Dave F