Hargreaves Lansdown marketing just a load of rubbish?

robmatic

I suspect it's all just a sinister plot to make money.

Seriously though, who gets all that HL marketing slush through their letterbox and doesn't understand that it has a purpose? And more importantly, why would anyone be bothered about it?

For me, HL provide good service and a well-designed and functional online facility that enables me to access investments cost-effectively as a DIY investor. I couldn't care less about their Wealth 150 and do my own research, which I'm sure isn't that unusual amongst their customers, and I accept that the distribution of investment products does not happen for free.

blinko

almondsalty wrote: »

LOL. I have provided my argument, you personally can't be bothered to read it all and just stick to your strange agenda.

It is clear that I do not believe in the spin of HL's wealth 150, hence why i said 'oh and' with their words in quotations and a smily face at the end. How many indicators of sarcasm do you require? You are trying your best to defend them, yet have just admitted yourself that how HL select the funds is rubbish. Talk about contradictions.

Strangely enough you haven't ruled out yourself being affiliated with HL. If you are, you're doing a very poor job of defending them as part of your duties. :money:

Judging by your previous posts you are a very strong advocate of HL /affiliated with them (?), and infact one of your earlier posts from around six years ago begged for people to refer you to HL and spammed the URL and everyone around you questioned why:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/31658

Naughty naughty.

Anyway best to remain on topic, which was what people thought of HL's marketing and how/if they use it.

which previous posts ? I don't think so.

Your argument is weak.

You still haven't answered my question all you have done is tried to side step it and write lengthy replies which are a waste of your time and only go to further degrade your weak argument.

As I have said before GO AWAY with your weak arguments which fall down when challenged,

and I will put the question again

When you first saw the wealth 150 in your mind was the first reaction. "This wealth150 is made up by complex maths/selection" ?

its a pretty basic question right !

blinko

robmatic wrote: »

I suspect it's all just a sinister plot to make money.

Seriously though, who gets all that HL marketing slush through their letterbox and doesn't understand that it has a purpose? And more importantly, why would anyone be bothered about it?

For me, HL provide good service and a well-designed and functional online facility that enables me to access investments cost-effectively as a DIY investor. I couldn't care less about their Wealth 150 and do my own research, which I'm sure isn't that unusual amongst their customers, and I accept that the distribution of investment products does not happen for free.

Thats my point exactly who really pays much attention to it ?

blinko

jamesd wrote: »

almondsalty, HL's marketing publications are superb, much as their customer service is exemplary. Superb doesn't mean offering good recommendations, it means doing the job the marketing is intended to do, sell things.

I agree I think there customer service is fantastic, I like their online platform I think its easy to use overall I don't really see what there is too complain about HL.

I don't buy funds anymore but if i did I would probably go with them, if another provider comes along and offers cheaper access to funds I will use them.

but it is unclear what salty is complaining about

and

his constant avoiding my question only goes to show how weak is arguemnt is (with his made up username and 32 posts)

jamesd

blinko wrote: »

Thats my point exactly who really pays much attention to it ?

The people who don't know much about how things work. The same people who walk into a bank and expect to get the best investment deal around. Lots of those around. Even people like me for a little while as I learned about things. The normal reaction is to believe the claims when they are so well presented. It's only later that people may learn more about how things work and see the blend of things involved.

I think you're treating almondsalty badly, to the point where I considered briefly the idea of reporting your posts for failure to be suitably nice to all moneysavers. You should really concentrate on the subject, not the person. Telling someone to go away is a pretty clear sign that you're starting to be critical of the person rather than their arguments. It's also very hostile questioning to repeatedly ask the same question as often as you have, with the range of answers that have been given.

This doesn't mean that I agree or disagree with any particular argument. You're both making interesting points that will be educational for those who don't know how things work.

blinko

jamesd wrote: »

Also a lot more expensive, often in both the dealing costs you have to pay and the management costs. That'll inevitably reduce performance of a tracker.

Even if you can get an ETF that's cheaper on holding cost the fund is likely to win on lower cost for ongoing contributions.

I'm assuming you wouldn't waste your time looking at tracker funds charging 1.5%, 1% or similar but would look at those in the 0.1% to 0.4% sort of range. I don't personally have any great issue with paying 0.1% TER for a FTSE All Share Index tracker in one of my pension pots. Doubt I could beat that cost with an ETF.

There's also the counterparty risk of many ETFs, something you just don't get with tracker funds.

How are the dealing costs more ? £10 a trade with iii and are you sure the management charges are higher when its just a basket of shares ??

jimjames

robmatic wrote: »

I suspect it's all just a sinister plot to make money.

Seriously though, who gets all that HL marketing slush through their letterbox and doesn't understand that it has a purpose? And more importantly, why would anyone be bothered about it?

For me, HL provide good service and a well-designed and functional online facility that enables me to access investments cost-effectively as a DIY investor. I couldn't care less about their Wealth 150 and do my own research, which I'm sure isn't that unusual amongst their customers, and I accept that the distribution of investment products does not happen for free.

Same here. Some of their material is useful and gives ideas for themes for investment even if not in the funds they promote. I like to get as many sources for investment ideas and HL is another part of the mix.

I'm also one that mentions HL a lot and am happy to confirm that I have no association with them at all - apart from as a shareholder via some funds and various trackers now that they are in the FTSE. The fact that it is far cheaper for me to access funds via HL than direct to the manager or via some other platforms and with their excellent website is enough to make me a convert.

jamesd

blinko wrote: »

How are the dealing costs more ? £10 a trade with iii and are you sure the management charges are higher when its just a basket of shares ??

Dealing cost: £10 a trade with iii for an ETF, £0 for a fund with HL.

Management charges:

0.47% Fidelity Multi Asset Growth Fund
0.65% BlackRock DC Diversified Growth Fund
0.75% Newton Real Return Fund
0.10% BlackRock Aquila Life UK Equity Index Fund
0.25% BlackRock Aquila Life World Equity (ex-UK) Index Fund
0.15% BlackRock Aqua Life (60:40) Global Equity Index Fund
0.10% BlackRock Aquila Life Over 15 Years Gilt Index Fund
0.15% BlackRock Aquila Life Cash Fund

Those are the AMCs in one of my work pensions. No dealing charges.

Try beating those costs for say £100 a month regular contribution to a FTSE All Share Index tracker ETF, where the iii buying cost of £10 is effectively a 10% initial charge.

The trading costs are why it can be a good idea to accumulate money in a fund and then switch a lump to an ETF, if you can find a cheaper ETF, when the amount makes the dealing cost negligible.

For that same work pension I'm currently being offered a section 32 buyout with these TERs from Fidelity:

0.63% Fidelity Multi Asset Growth Fund
0.92% Fidelity BlackRock Diversified Growth Fund
0.90% Fidelity Newton Real Return Fund
0.14% Fidelity BlackRock UK Equity Index Fund
0.15% Fidelity BlackRock World (ex-UK) Fund
0.15% Fidelity BlackRock Long Term Fund
0.14% Fidelity BlackRock Over 15 Years Gilt Index Fund
0.18% Fidelity BlackRock Cash Fund

A range of other investments available, not an appropriate set for me, though.

Here are the closest Hargreaves Lansdown fund equivalents to show how uncompetitive HL can be sometimes when compared to quite competitive pricing:

1.5% Newton Real Return (vs 0.9% or 0.75%)
0.25% HSBC FTSE All-Share Index (Inst) (0.27% TER) (vs 0.14% or 0.1%)

Yet even though there I was showing how HL was higher price than some options available to me, that HSBC FTSE tracker is still likely to be cheaper than most FTSE ETFs once you consider all of the costs, including dealing. For HL those prices can make HL pretty competitive on price for those who just want some trackers.

kar999

For some considerable time I naively thought cutting the middle man out, IFA's etc, and dealing with Fund Managers direct would be the cheapest way to invest. It wasn't until I came to this site that I realised there were trousering 3% of the investment in iniital charges. I now save that, and some annual charges by using HL. I could also use other similar fund supermarkets.

I dont really care if their marketing is thrust at me as a consequence of being their customer. I am free to either accept or ignore it.

almondsalty

jamesd wrote: »

I think you're treating almondsalty badly, to the point where I considered briefly the idea of reporting your posts for failure to be suitably nice to all moneysavers. You should really concentrate on the subject, not the person. Telling someone to go away is a pretty clear sign that you're starting to be critical of the person rather than their arguments. It's also very hostile questioning to repeatedly ask the same question as often as you have, with the range of answers that have been given.

Thank you for the voice of reason. I have not 'attacked' Blinko in anyway, I have answered his q's and spent a great deal of time defending his consistent questions with many examples. Although he consistently acts hostile towards me without really debating any points I've made. This has led me to believe that he may be affiliated with HL (he too has avoided this question many times, but I am not going to keep asking him and pressuring him).

This was purely meant to be a discussion on how valuable/invaluable people find HL's marketing and literature. I'm all up for a 'debate' on the matter but there is little point in aggression/hostility.

It is clear that HL as a business provide a business that people use and enjoy, it is efficient. But this was a topic about their marketing specifically and it should remain on that area I feel.