It's very hard out there

skintscotslass

paulwf wrote: »

I'm similar to bargainbetty now and only accept applications via application forms that are picked up in store, filled in by hand and then returned in person. Unfortunately when recruiting using Cvs sent by email you get literally hundreds of people blasting off their generic Cvs. Once any of the agencies that work with the job centre get a sniff of the job they start spamming with dozens and dozens of random Cvs.

The effort required to pick up and fill in an application form may be small but it is enough to weed out those that can't be bothered. Filling in a form by hand means they have to put some thought into it and they can't edit it and spell check it as easily. Returning the form in person gives me a good first impression of the applicant.

I will make an exception if there is a genuine reason why an applicant can't go through the normal process but I have found it very useful to restrict emailed CVs.

One of my friends is recruiting at the moment (for a store 200 miles away from where we live unfortunately!) and is sifting applications at the moment. The one thing guaranteed for her to bin an application is for that application to have 'please see CV' or 'please refer to the attached CV' written in every single box!

bargainbetty

westv wrote: »

Any particular reason for the restriction?

Also, did you state "experience essential" in the job add?

Yes, because this person will be handling certain types of client communication and the ability to write a basic letter when you have 50 barristers to take care of is rather important. It also prevents email boxes being innudated with agency spiels, which they do if you put a direct e-address.

Paulwf is right - it does stop time-wasters blasting in hundreds of generic CVs as well. I am honest enough to sit and read every application, so I expect the person to have made some blasted effort.

I did state experience was essential, because it is. We have a busy office and we don't have the resources to spend a month getting someone trained on the bare bones of what to do.

With all due respect, whatever my reason for the restriction, I need to know that the candidate will follow the instructions given to them by the senior staff and barristers, and not choose to do something else because it might be easier for them, without considering that we are doing it our way for a good reason.

Hammyman

DCFC79 wrote: »

i have thought about it(its always on my mind though) but its what kind, i dont have any experience that i can use to go SE. It has been suggested in the past about setting up a pc repair(upgrades that kind of thing) shop with someone else but its whether it would work as theres a local shop in town and pc world just outside of town plus various other ex employees who worked for so and so.

The next town, population circa 33,000 - majority retired, manages to support at least half a dozen PC shops.

LittleCharlie

paulwf wrote: »

The effort required to pick up and fill in an application form may be small but it is enough to weed out those that can't be bothered. Filling in a form by hand means they have to put some thought into it and they can't edit it and spell check it as easily. Returning the form in person gives me a good first impression of the applicant.

You see, I don't see it as a "can't be bothered" thing, but rather an aspirational thing. I don't want to work with companies who make me fill in CV's by hand. I can just about grin and bear an online one, but usually end up giving up half way though.

The thing is, when you look into the backgrounds of companies that do things the "old school" ways, it's usually because they're very old school themselves. Unwilling (or unable) to adapt to new ideas, changes in technology etc. Further to that, when I've worked in jobs with that kind of attitude, they're generally not interested in listening to changes staff propose or similar.

I've no interest in working for a company who doesn't make me feel like a valued member of staff with good ideas and opinions worth listening to, and I can't think of a single one of my friends who feels the same way. In fact we were having this discussion the other day (mass job seeking going on amongst my friends) and not a single one of us feels differently about filling in application forms, especially when generally the pay seems to be higher for similar jobs who DO accept CV's with covering letters!

Part of what makes "me" is conveyed in a CV. The content I choose to put in, the selection of words, the layout etc. Why would you want to eliminate the ability for a candidate to convey their personality and their skills? I could understand if the job was recruiting for low skill, production line type work, but with anything vaguely needing a personality, why would you want to eliminate that at stage one?

paulwf

LittleCharlie wrote: »

You see, I don't see it as a "can't be bothered" thing, but rather an aspirational thing. I don't want to work with companies who make me fill in CV's by hand. I can just about grin and bear an online one, but usually end up giving up half way though.

The thing is, when you look into the backgrounds of companies that do things the "old school" ways, it's usually because they're very old school themselves. Unwilling (or unable) to adapt to new ideas, changes in technology etc. Further to that, when I've worked in jobs with that kind of attitude, they're generally not interested in listening to changes staff propose or similar.

I've no interest in working for a company who doesn't make me feel like a valued member of staff with good ideas and opinions worth listening to, and I can't think of a single one of my friends who feels the same way. In fact we were having this discussion the other day (mass job seeking going on amongst my friends) and not a single one of us feels differently about filling in application forms, especially when generally the pay seems to be higher for similar jobs who DO accept CV's with covering letters!

Part of what makes "me" is conveyed in a CV. The content I choose to put in, the selection of words, the layout etc. Why would you want to eliminate the ability for a candidate to convey their personality and their skills? I could understand if the job was recruiting for low skill, production line type work, but with anything vaguely needing a personality, why would you want to eliminate that at stage one?

There are of course different application methods that work for different types of jobs, and I'm sure Cvs are a better match for higher end jobs. One thing I would say though is please don't be put off by application forms, you say that you don't see it as not being bothered yet you admit you're less inclined to plough through it...that's partly why companies use them

I don't take your point about companies that don't accept emails being old fashioned, although may be it applies to other sectors. I interact with my staff by email, text, twitter, facebook and have an online scheduling system so they can check their rota on their mobiles or via a facebook app if they wish. We're generally light years ahead of similar companies.

I've also found with CVs they actually convey less in many cases...every school pupil seems to be taught to churn out the same generic Cv from the same template and that seems to stay with them for a long time. With an application form I can make sure they don't miss any crucial points. It's also much easier to see who stands out when you are comparing applications that are all structured the same way.

Maybe I just saw too many emails with too many attachments entitled "cvtemplate.doc"

Mistral001

Regarding putting "see CV" in a lot of the boxes in an application form, surely one of the main reasons for having an application form is to order the information in standard way so that each application can be easily compared. Thus the people looking at the applications can see at a glance the information they want rather than searching all over a CV for it.

baybeebug

Written application forms are all well and good as long as the boxes are big enough to get all the information in! I get annoyed when they ask about my qualifications then give about a half inch box to get them all in! then they do get 'please see attached sheet'

DCFC79

scheming_gypsy wrote: »

if you're fixing PC's from home you don't need qualifications, just the ability to fix it... I've worked in IT for 19 years and don't have any formal IT qualifications.

its having the confidence to do it which im not sure i have

chrisann_2

Terry_collins wrote: »

I have been been applying for a wide range of jobs from IT project management to Retail assistant roles and CV has been tailored for each role without lying. My CV has been done by an outplacement company highlighting my achievements too. Currently after applying for jobs there is no response. Having had a few interviews too the feedback is generally somebody with more experience always is sucessful.

The only choice is to keep plugging away - something will come up believe me. And you will certainly be entitled to call yourself "tenacious"! I've just secured an offer for a project manager contract after 4 months and 250 applications. So I know how soul-destroying it is to keep applying for roles that you feel sure you are perfect for and not receiving a response. It is actually very easy to set yourself up as an independent contractor for IT PM roles and these are normally much easier to come across although you have to be flexible re location unless you live in a big city. Please feel free to send me a private email if I can help with any info.

Firetastic

DCFC79 wrote: »

i have thought about it(its always on my mind though) but its what kind, i dont have any experience that i can use to go SE. It has been suggested in the past about setting up a pc repair(upgrades that kind of thing) shop with someone else but its whether it would work as theres a local shop in town and pc world just outside of town plus various other ex employees who worked for so and so.

Hi A good way of setting up a PC repair business is to go to client's houses. It gives that personal touch.

We know someone who fixes our computer when it goes pear shaped. He is in real demand around here. He's a qualfiied Technician. When he comes he always tells us how busy he is.

An advantage of doing house calls is the client can tell you what they want done and they can watch you do it. When you take your PC to a shop they can do whatever they want without you there. Plus you can talk the client through what you are doing.