Job offer and jury service, advice wanted

stephyt23

redped wrote: »

Fair enough, but from her point of view she wants to know who'll be in the shop each day, but she can't plan her staff rota on the understanding that you may be available if you're not required for jury service on a given day.

Well she still shouldn't have offered me the job then!!

I get your point but i'm sure you can see why I'm p*ssed off. It's bloody heartbreaking being offered a job that then gets taken away for the second time when I've been unemployed for so long and have applied for as many jobs as i have.

stephyt23

redped wrote: »

If I was the OP, I'd rather get the jury service out of the way, before starting university. Much better than having to take time out of the first year in uni to serve on a jury.

Which is why I turned down the first one seeing the training was in the same week as this was my thoughts exactly. I know not everyone gets called up again when they defer but it was a risk I didn't really want to take

redped

stephyt23 wrote: »

Well she still shouldn't have offered me the job then!!

I get your point but i'm sure you can see why I'm p*ssed off. It's bloody heartbreaking being offered a job that then gets taken away for the second time when I've been unemployed for so long and have applied for as many jobs as i have.

I can certainly understand how you feel, as I'd feel exactly the same in your position. It's not easy getting a job at the minute, and to have one taken away at the last minute would really disheartening. I just don't think you'll be able to get head office to overrule what you've already been told.

I did jury service about 10 years ago, and most of the time it was a case of driving up to the court, waiting around for an hour or so, and then being told to go home. My employer was good about it (they didn't really have a choice), but I was really glad when it was all over. If you do try to defer it, you may find that the new date is more of a disruption than just getting it over and done with now.

Edit: Just read your last post, so ignore my last sentence.

stephyt23

redped wrote: »

I can certainly understand how you feel, as I'd feel exactly the same in your position. It's not easy getting a job at the minute, and to have one taken away at the last minute would really disheartening. I just don't think you'll be able to get head office to overrule what you've already been told.

I did jury service about 10 years ago, and most of the time it was a case of driving up to the court, waiting around for an hour or so, and then being told to go home. My employer was good about it (they didn't really have a choice), but I was really glad when it was all over. If you do try to defer it, you may find that the new date is more of a disruption than just getting it over and done with now.

Edit: Just read your last post, so ignore my last sentence.

It's just more frustrating knowing that come September I won't be able to claim JSA any more if I'm still stuck without a job even though my degree is only part time. I won't get very much help in the way of loans and grants with it being part time so a job really does mean everything to me right now. Think I'll just to stick to looking for school based jobs that start in September and resume looking for retail ones after my jury service

Uncertain

SarEl wrote: »

They won't say it is because of the jury service - they'll say it is because the OP isn't available as they wanted.

Oh I don't know - it seems they already have verbally!

If I was the OP I would gently attempt to get this on the record somehow then go for them.

There must be a few quid it it!

redped

Uncertain wrote: »

Oh I don't know - it seems they already have verbally!

If I was the OP I would gently attempt to get this on the record somehow then go for them.

There must be a few quid it it!

On what grounds?

SarEl

redped wrote: »

On what grounds?

This is, of course, the point. There is nothing at all in it for the OP as there are no grounds for a case of "refused a job". The employer might, if you could prove it, get a stern talking too by the court about cvic duty etc - but I doubt it. It certainly won't cost the employer anythin because there is no fine or award for refusing someone a job on the basis that they have jury duty. Now preventing someone from doing jury duty, that is contempt of court and can result in a fine or imprisonment - but the employer isn't preventing the OP from doing it.

So the circumstances aren't really relevant. This is an old fashioned "the job got withdrawn before I started".

Uncertain

SarEl wrote: »

This is, of course, the point. There is nothing at all in it for the OP as there are no grounds for a case of "refused a job". The employer might, if you could prove it, get a stern talking too by the court about cvic duty etc - but I doubt it. It certainly won't cost the employer anythin because there is no fine or award for refusing someone a job on the basis that they have jury duty. Now preventing someone from doing jury duty, that is contempt of court and can result in a fine or imprisonment - but the employer isn't preventing the OP from doing it.

So the circumstances aren't really relevant. This is an old fashioned "the job got withdrawn before I started".

I'm sure you are right but I don't follow the argument I'm afraid.

If a job is offered and accepted surely a contract is made?

If that offer is then withdrawn is the employer not liable for, at the very least, whatever period of notice they were contracted to give the employee had they started work?

If this is not the case, are you saying there is no redress if somebody is offered a job, accepts, gives notice on their old employment only to have the offer withdrawn for no reason?

Also, in this case, suppose the OP started work then told the firm of her jury service. Had they dismissed her, could she not have claimed unfair dismissal as this is one of the areas that does not need a year's service?

Confused!

SarEl

Uncertain wrote: »

I'm sure you are right but I don't follow the argument I'm afraid.

If a job is offered and accepted surely a contract is made? Yes. But a contract made verbally is hard to prove, and even if you do prove it, no start date has been agreed so you can be dismissed with notice (see below for notice)

If that offer is then withdrawn is the employer not liable for, at the very least, whatever period of notice they were contracted to give the employee had they started work? Absolutely. And the period of notice for someone with less than a months continuous employment is??? That's right - it's nil.

If this is not the case, are you saying there is no redress if somebody is offered a job, accepts, gives notice on their old employment only to have the offer withdrawn for no reason? No I am not saying that. The law is the one saying it.

Also, in this case, suppose the OP started work then told the firm of her jury service. Had they dismissed her, could she not have claimed unfair dismissal as this is one of the areas that does not need a year's service? Almost. Yes if she had started work and then been dismissed for having jury duty then she could have claimed unfair dismissal, but she hadn't started working for them, and even if she had, if the employer claimed that her absence would have a serious effect on the firm she could have been requyired to ask for deferment and dismissed fairly if she didn't.

Confused!

Sorry. The only conditions under which it is possible, in your hypothetical case, to sue for loss (and it still isn't an unfair dismissal) is where the employee has contractual notice already and is within the contractual notice period. If contractual notice has been agreed then that, or the balance of it, is due from the employer. There have been, I know, a few cases, not many, where employees have tried to sue for loss of their former employment. I don't off the top of my head know of any that won (and these types of cases tend to be high flyers, not retail assistants). But I admit that I am not sure about that because it isn't my area of law. Remember, that is contract law, not employment law. And I don't do contract law, which is a highly specialised area as well.

prowla

Since a company can ask you to leave pretty much any time in your first year or two (a probationary period), I think that withdrawing an offer before you start is hardly a major stumbling block for them.

Presumably giving notice before the work starts would mean the clock started ticking at that point, and so if (say) notice was 1 month, then giving one month's notice before the work srated would satisfy that.