Tax Rebate/Self Assessment 'Security Check'

PlutoinCapricorn

GDB, in your case it is the very large amount that has got HMRC checking: CIS/PAYE and a three year period add to the complications.

People such as me who are due £15 or so get it within a few days!

chrismac1

HMRC are often ruthless and cynical when it comes to CIS refunds. You may want to get some help with it if it goes on say beyond 30 Nov. If you go to the CIS section of accountingweb, you'll see that these can drag on for over a year if the Contractor has not completed returns and paid across tax properly.

In my view this is an utter disgrace. HMRC are the ones who designed this system, the Sub-Contractor is simply a victim who has had too much tax taken and asking for the overpayment back.

Just because HMRC are sufficiently inefficient and incompetent that they let "bad" Contractors carry on for over a year before properly dealing with them does not justify slow pay or no pay to the sub-contractor.

jimmo

Security checks are, would you believe, security checks and it is vitally important that only those who make the security checks, and those who oversee and monitor the system, know how they are done.

When I did security checks they were pretty similar to what we now know the credit reference agencies record for all of us but I find it easy to believe that things have moved on since those days

However basics first, are you on the voters list/ electoral register? If not, you would have precious little chance of getting a loan or credit card Your tax rebate will, at best, be delayed for an awfully long time whilst HMRC do further checks which banks and credit card companies wouldn’t bother with.

Certainly, in my days a P60 or SC60 would have been accepted at face value and wouldn’t be a reason for a security check failure and I see no reason to believe it would now.

chrismac1

Unfortunately, jimmo, since your day things have got worse - an awful lot worse. Especially in CIS.

One example. A client rang me with a £200 fine for 2 months late submission of CIS. I was 99% confident we had submitted on time. I rang credit control on my landline and CIS Newry on my mobile.

I got to speak to a real person in credit control first. She assured me she was looking at the database and the £200 fine was valid. As luck would have it, just at that moment a real person from Newry came on to the mobile and she told me the account was clear per the screen, total amount due zero.

There then began a pantomime whereby each of them tried everything possible to do nothing at all to resolve the situation. I then simply took the phones and but them mouthpiece to earpiece and forced them to talk to one another, at which point credit control ended up backing down.

That is how the UK tax system works in 2012, Jimmo. It was much better in 2002 in my view, and better still in 1992. God help us all in 2022 if this rate of progress continues!

gold_dollar_boy

PlutoinCapricorn, jimmo and chrismac1; thanks for your replies.

I agree with all your points, I just find the whole repayment system; customer, subbie, contractor side, be it S.A, CIS or PAYE; mind blowingly sluggish.

I successfully appealed about £1500 of fines with them this month, the only reason I was successful was because their admin department is about as concise and efficient as their repayment team (incorrect addresses for me, dates of Self Employment, no ability to produce data protected call, email and paper letter recordings when requested)

I have paid hundreds of thousands in tax and have been nailed by them with £1000's of fines over the years for relatively menial things when I was a green, new start up business. They're in no way tardy when it comes to collating my details and enforcing those penalties.

£23k plus sounds a lot, but I'm not a rich bloke, far from it, this money will clear debts I have incurred over the last 4 years from having worked for a crook who had a crook for an accountant for just 14 months (at peak he had 50 lads on the books for 2 years +, PAYE And CIS and didn't pay a penny to HMRC from the deductions he'd taken off them) HMRC and HMPS, I'm told, will be looking after said crooks.

It took me the best part of 8 months to get my paper trial in line. I wish I'd never agreed to be taxed at source. I've never had these kind of problems before doing that.

So you can imagine my joy when finally receiving a letter from HMRC saying for I was due the tax back.

It is 3 months to the day that I was told I was owed this money.

I wish they could organise their client communication, I get that they're under staffed, badly managed, horrendously organised and back logged to high heaven, I get that, but that does not forgive simple time scaling and being easily conversant.

My letter, sent about 1 - 2 weeks ago, conveyed the above and when I emailed a couple of days ago to ask if my letter had been received, this is the reply I got:

For any post that we received between 27 October 2012 and 02 November 2012, we expect to reply to you by 30 November 2012. Please allow three weeks from this date for the reply to reach you.

!!!!!!!!! 4 weeks to confirm receipt, 7 weeks to receive a reply !!!!!!!!!!

In my letter I have asked for financial compensation, due to interest incurred from me not being able to pay off a loan earlier, stress and time I have had to take off work to deal with this.

I don't hold my breath and I feel pretty helpless.

Who do I/can I go to if my complaint isn't successful in my eyes?

gold_dollar_boy

jimmo wrote: »

However basics first, are you on the voters list/ electoral register? If not, you would have precious little chance of getting a loan or credit card Your tax rebate will, at best, be delayed for an awfully long time whilst HMRC do further checks which banks and credit card companies wouldn’t bother with.

Certainly, in my days a P60 or SC60 would have been accepted at face value and wouldn’t be a reason for a security check failure and I see no reason to believe it would now.

yes, I am on the Electoral register and I am listed on the Council tax bill and all other utilities.

I am back to being employed now, working for a national company via PAYE, they have full details of this (thankfully my PAYE contributions are now being taken correctly from me and transferred as they should be to HMRC)

antonic

You can only complain to the independant adjuciator once you have exhausted all appeals within HMRC.

You may not succeed in your compensation claim re the loan , as HMRC will argue that you should not be relying on a HMRC refund to repay that loan, also unless you can prove that HMRC have made an error then you may also fail on that point also.

The delay in HMRC replying to letters is about right, but thats no consolation to you.

gold_dollar_boy wrote: »

PlutoinCapricorn, jimmo and chrismac1; thanks for your replies.

I agree with all your points, I just find the whole repayment system; customer, subbie, contractor side, be it S.A, CIS or PAYE; mind blowingly sluggish.

I successfully appealed about £1500 of fines with them this month, the only reason I was successful was because their admin department is about as concise and efficient as their repayment team (incorrect addresses for me, dates of Self Employment, no ability to produce data protected call, email and paper letter recordings when requested)

I have paid hundreds of thousands in tax and have been nailed by them with £1000's of fines over the years for relatively menial things when I was a green, new start up business. They're in no way tardy when it comes to collating my details and enforcing those penalties.

£23k plus sounds a lot, but I'm not a rich bloke, far from it, this money will clear debts I have incurred over the last 4 years from having worked for a crook who had a crook for an accountant for just 14 months (at peak he had 50 lads on the books for 2 years +, PAYE And CIS and didn't pay a penny to HMRC from the deductions he'd taken off them) HMRC and HMPS, I'm told, will be looking after said crooks.

It took me the best part of 8 months to get my paper trial in line. I wish I'd never agreed to be taxed at source. I've never had these kind of problems before doing that.

So you can imagine my joy when finally receiving a letter from HMRC saying for I was due the tax back.

It is 3 months to the day that I was told I was owed this money.

I wish they could organise their client communication, I get that they're under staffed, badly managed, horrendously organised and back logged to high heaven, I get that, but that does not forgive simple time scaling and being easily conversant.

My letter, sent about 1 - 2 weeks ago, conveyed the above and when I emailed a couple of days ago to ask if my letter had been received, this is the reply I got:

For any post that we received between 27 October 2012 and 02 November 2012, we expect to reply to you by 30 November 2012. Please allow three weeks from this date for the reply to reach you.

!!!!!!!!! 4 weeks to confirm receipt, 7 weeks to receive a reply !!!!!!!!!!

In my letter I have asked for financial compensation, due to interest incurred from me not being able to pay off a loan earlier, stress and time I have had to take off work to deal with this.

I don't hold my breath and I feel pretty helpless.

Who do I/can I go to if my complaint isn't successful in my eyes?

gold_dollar_boy

antonic wrote: »

You can only complain to the independant adjuciator once you have exhausted all appeals within HMRC.

You may not succeed in your compensation claim re the loan , as HMRC will argue that you should not be relying on a HMRC refund to repay that loan, also unless you can prove that HMRC have made an error then you may also fail on that point also.

The delay in HMRC replying to letters is about right, but thats no consolation to you.

Is there any specific people at HMRC I could ask to speak to? To try and speed the process along?

I've called once every 7 - 10 days for last 3 months.

Surely compensation can be sought? As they been misleading with time scales; indicating 2 - 10 working days. And it'll be 100 working days before long?

chrismac1

Put everything in writing. Head it up COMPLAINT. Spell out the fact that there are consequential losses and that you'll be seeking compensation. Tell them you're amazed they are treating an unrepresented taxpayer like this, especially when you've told them several times of the hardship you are suffering as a direct result. Say you are at the end of your tether and considering writing to your MP as a last resort.

In this letter you are more or less putting all of your cards on the table at once. I prefer to play them out one or two at a time like a good card player would. But you are desperate and need to put them under pressure.

I like to get them on the back foot. If I get in a situation where my foot is on their throat I press hard and keep it there. This gets results. Like a lot of accountants who deal with them professionally and ruthlessly, I win over 95% of the time, have been awarded compensation by HMRC every single time I have sought it, have won every single Tribunal case, they've folded every single enquiry within 6 weeks which is moving at the speed of light for these jokers.

Get your foot heading toward that neck, press it hard and keep it there.

jimmo

Have you seen this?

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/complaints-appeals/how-to-complain/make-complaint.htm

　

I would go a bit further than that and complain to your MP now.

As I understand it in today’s HMRC the front line staff only know that your repayment is subject to a security check because that is all the computer will tell them. They can’t tell you how long the security check will take because they don’t know.

That may be irritating but bearable for a week but not for 3 months.

If there is a genuine security problem you are unlikely to ever be told exactly what the problem is because that would undermine the security procedure so I think you have reached the point where you need reassurance from someone in authority.

By the way, I am on Virgin Broadband and, today, Virgin Security blocked my access to the HMRC website as a suspect site for phishing, spreading viruses etc.
Is someone trying to tell me something?