think im getting screwed by work.

SarEl

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Hello HR person. Could you forward the minutes of our meeting to me so that I have them on file. Many Thanks Jiboom.

Absolutely. You must not depend on what you think was agreed. That is what I am trying to warn you about. It is relatively easy for employers to bend things to what they want them to say - you need to be careful because it is still not that hard to reduce your hours again. Contracts are funny things. People think they are tablets of stone, but they are very pliable, and it takes only a little legal knowledge to vary them entirely within the law.

KiKi

SarEl wrote: »

People think they are tablets of stone, but they are very pliable, and it takes only a little legal knowledge to vary them entirely within the law.

I think I made that point the other day, and I was told it was a ridiculous statement.

SarEl

KiKi wrote: »

I think I made that point the other day, and I was told it was a ridiculous statement.

It is far from ridiculous. I could, with relative ease, within a month, two at tops, vary my staffs contracts to reduce their hours by a third and their wages by the same amount - and do it utterly within the law. Not that I am going to do so, I hasten to add, in case any of them are reading this! It goes like this:

1) "Hi guys, our financial position isn't as strong as it needs to be (business cause) so I am going to reduce your wages by a third and your hours by a third. I am going to do this for six months and then review it. Any comments" This is called the consultation stage, which I can complete in a very short period - a day if I want.

2) If they agree I can do it straight away

3) If they don't agree then I serve them notice and offer them a new contract under these terms. If they sign they have agreed - if they don't they have resigned.

Any claim for unfair dismissal would therefore be constructive unfair dismissal (less than 3% chance of winning, so the odds are in my favour) and the odds took a massive leap in my already well-stacked favour when I said I was doing it as a temporary measure and would review the situation. Several very huge companies have done exactly this over the last few years and have won their tribunals.

It is foolish to assume that tribunals judgements do not reflect the "real world". In times of recession and high unemployment their judgements invariably reflect the belief that employers need lattitude and that employees should be doing, and agreeing, almost anything that keeps them in work. Employers who use the law precisely and cleverly can get away with an awful lot.

Uncertain

KiKi wrote: »

I think I made that point the other day, and I was told it was a ridiculous statement.

No you didn't!

That may have been the point you INTENDED to make but what you actually said was ridiculous (totally ridiculous even). :rotfl:

jiboom

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Hello HR person. Could you forward the minutes of our meeting to me so that I have them on file. Many Thanks Jiboom.

i so want to do this but if i keep being a pain they may take me on. i will see when they sort the rota out if im given more than 2 days. as i have said i have offered to cut to 4 days,although still 5 days pay.
wiith regards minutes, none were taken so if i ask for them how would they go about it? they could just miss out the bits that help me and the other 2 at the meeting would not back me up as they gain if im forced to a 2 day week contract.

secondly, i have been told i could object to my managers outburst. As he said i was lucky he did not get rid of me and i had an easy ride ive been told i could now claim i feel uncomfortable working under someone who thinks like this and decides how much work/ when i go if choices of staff to make redundant are needed.

finally, one task i can be asked to do involves lifting. This lifting is repetetive over a 6 hour period. I have not done this part of the job for 4 years as i had severe trouble with forearms and elbows due to Repetetive strain. Now there is 2 people to do the work they want me to go back to the lifting part and come off what i have been doing. can i refuse or will they get rid of me on capability grounds?

jiboom

SarEl wrote: »

It is far from ridiculous. I could, with relative ease, within a month, two at tops, vary my staffs contracts to reduce their hours by a third and their wages by the same amount - and do it utterly within the law. Not that I am going to do so, I hasten to add, in case any of them are reading this! It goes like this:

1) "Hi guys, our financial position isn't as strong as it needs to be (business cause) so I am going to reduce your wages by a third and your hours by a third. I am going to do this for six months and then review it. Any comments" This is called the consultation stage, which I can complete in a very short period - a day if I want.

2) If they agree I can do it straight away

3) If they don't agree then I serve them notice and offer them a new contract under these terms. If they sign they have agreed - if they don't they have resigned.

Any claim for unfair dismissal would therefore be constructive unfair dismissal (less than 3% chance of winning, so the odds are in my favour) and the odds took a massive leap in my already well-stacked favour when I said I was doing it as a temporary measure and would review the situation. Several very huge companies have done exactly this over the last few years and have won their tribunals.

It is foolish to assume that tribunals judgements do not reflect the "real world". In times of recession and high unemployment their judgements invariably reflect the belief that employers need lattitude and that employees should be doing, and agreeing, almost anything that keeps them in work. Employers who use the law precisely and cleverly can get away with an awful lot.

Acas did warn me of this enforcement but gave a time scale of 12 weeks, my job will not go on that long and if it does my working day would be 2-3 hours so if we did not agree to cut in hours redundancy would come and they would just pull in staff from other depts to cover the 2-3 hours.

Sambucus_Nigra

jiboom wrote: »

wiith regards minutes, none were taken so if i ask for them how would they go about it?

You are missing the point. The point of asking is for them to put something in writing - so that you can respond with a 'Oh that's great, I've had a read through and they are fine' or a 'Oh, I wrote down that you would X and Y, did I get that wrong?'.....

It's called politics....and covering your back.