roughcast and sandstone quote does this look right?

kazzys51

hi there, we live in a block of four and the roughcast(wetcast) is knackered a lot of its boast and loads of it is starting to fall away, causing damp in various places in all properties.

we have had 4 quotes done in jan 2011 but were only valid for 8 weeks. this is about the second quote weve been given from the same company but there is a few extras added on that were not mentioned on the previous quote although this is listed individually ....see what you think this is how the quote is broken down

the first

roughcast

cutting off defective areas of roughcast and applying bonding agent and blockout these areas( not really sure what blocking out means?)

applying a coat of powerwall exposed render to complete rear elevation both gables and stair cases also porches then drydash to finish angle beads, smooth band finish to indigos and sofits clean up area etc scaffold for £7930 +vat

second quote identical in wording £8190+vat(has materials really rocketed that much?or was it quiet in jan??)

first question on this is are they able to pick off the rough cast thats damaged should it not be fully removed to do an accurate and waterproof job?
also the property is 4 brick deep solid wall so has to be as water tight as poss(we live west of scot!)built1900's

cutting back damaged areas of stone work at front elevation
bonding adgent applyed and first coat of cement render top coat of render and key off as stone.£1380+vat

second quote £1430.00+vat

the extras that i mentioned are the guttering and downpipes the type of guttering we have is an old style aluminium they have refered to it as an ogee??? (not sure if this is right)

the new gutter£3680.00

rain pipes removed (iron)replaced with pvc £480+vat

i would have thought that to do roughcast properly the pipes guttering etc should be removed anyway considering its not for the makeup of the property and to solve a damp problem.

the trouble with this is out of all the 1st quotes this one seemed the middle of the road and the most ligit! and its a long term local comp with a reputation to uphold bit surprised of the jump ! but hopefully someone will educate me on this thanks

owls

An increase of 200 is not a lot on a job that size, could be due to a fixed cost increasing.
dry dash is just pebble dashing using spa.
the general rule of any rendering is your only as good as your substraight, if its loose it needs to come off, if its sound you can leave it providing that adequete mechanical key is there for the next coat of product, sounds like theyve allowed for it because of the mention of a bonding agent.

the gutters do need to come off, but can be fixed back afterwards if they are sound, if there alluminuim they are reasonably modern as if they were cast i could understand replacing.
key off cement render as stone is just ashlar rendering.
why did they not allow for the replacement guttering in the first place?

rodenal

Can you give the m2 involved in both elevations? Also the length of pipe if possible.

You shouldn't be sand/cement rendering over sandstone, the stone will be damaged by this over time as the sand/cement isn't porous, your render start to fall off and the stone behind will be incredibly soft. This won't happen overnight so whether it's a concern to you or not is your call really.

Lithomix or an equivalent repair render is acceptable but you would usually use this to patch in rather than carry out a full elevation repair (though I have seen it done). It is much more expensive than a cement repair, but with good reason as there is a great deal more work involved, especially on any sills / mullions etc

Hacking off render shouldn't be more than about £10 / m2 ( I pay less than this, around £6) - new render dependent on what they're using won't be more than £20-25 / m2. You can patch it in, will be different colours due to the weathering on old render but not the end of the world - blocking out just means building up in cement to give a level substrate.

Oh one more thing, Ogee shouldn't be replaced with straight PVC half rounds - or rather alot of councils wont allow this. If this is what has been quoted it's worth checking

owls

New render wont be more than 20-25 what planet are you on?

even a through coloured render such as weber, k rend etc the product to buy is 10-12 quid a metre before you apply any to the wall. so your 12-15 quid difference allows for scaffold, alkline mesh or a backing with additives in and then a tradesman to apply two coats,you aint real.

the replacement is not forced to be sand cement to be fair, it could be a polymer modified render to use as a dash receiver, that would be sufficent to go over sandstone.

your spot on about the guttering though.

rodenal

*labour - should have been clearer, not inclusive of materials or access. Hence why I asked for the dimensions

The OP is talking roughcast on all but the main elevation so forget weber / sto etc

I still disagree r.e renders over sandstone though, there are only 1 or 2 out there which are truly suitable (and there is some dubaity over these if not mixed correctly)- but as I said any damage will take a significant amount of time to appear, in the region of 15-20 years before it starts to get bad.

kazzys51

hi there , thanks for your replys this is really helpful because were a bit blind in this! and there is too much money involved for it not to last.....cos were gonna be here a looong time!

rodenal could you educate me a bit on the sandstone, i think i know what you mean about it not bonding properly and not showing for a time, because there's already been very small patches done, we have been here 8 yrs and they have been done before that,
it looks ok but if you picked at it it would prob fall off... it kind of looks blistered, im rubbish at describing this hope this make sense.

as for m2 im not sure the property is a quarter villa 1900's with 2 very small porches on the back and roughcasted stairs going up to top flats on both sides of prop, victorian flat high celing etc that prob dosnt help a bit sorry i'll find out.

could i ask what happens with the brick thats revealed underneath do they repoint it? i ask this because we had major problems with damp when we moved in the brick on the inside was just dust? although nothing was done with it ... but its been something ive always regreted not re doing anyway thanks for your time!

kazzys51

hi all just thought id bump this up just to see if i could get a bit more advice thanks