Dial Direct Auto Renewal

mikey72

dunstonh wrote: »

reading your renewal letter that tells you what you need to do if you want to cancel wouldnt have been a better option.

legally, cancelling the payment method does not cancel the contract.



And just because we have a legal system and the FOS does not mean T&Cs are not legally binding.

The problem we have is that the OP made an error by making an incorrect assumption. That incorrect assumption has led to a cost. However, no rule has been broken by the firm (that we know of).

Ignoring the fact the FOS will not even look at the complaint at this stage, if they were to after the complaints process had been followed, they would look for rule breaches or unfair terms. We have no known published examples at this time on how the FOS rules on auto-renewal. The fact there is no examples and the firms are still doing it after all these years suggests that the FOS are not taking a hard line against the firms. Or it may be that the volume of complaints is so low in that area that there has been no example published yet.

It is fair to say that a court would rule against the OP as its their error. You are basically relying on the FOS feeling sorry for you or finding a bit of wording they dont like. i.e. getting lucky.

There's enough unfair trading legislation, inertia selling, unfair terms to give it a good shot.
As you say, it may be the volume of complaints simply isn't high enough yet, as a simple error by the op, by making an incorrect assumption, shouldn't be exploited, and most of the existing laws protect these cases normally.
Most of the answers to questions like this appear to be "it was in the t&c's, I saw it, so if you didn't you should pay regardless"
It's that's the attitude of the majority, maybe that's why there aren't enough complaints yet.

So we need more.

Once a ruling is made, and it's proven no law protects the customer from this, fair enough. Until then, if the insurers push, push back.

How_many_cowboys

But say I had a crash and I didn't have the other insurance and I made no payment on this one, would they off paid out? I very much doubt it.

mikey72

How_many_cowboys wrote: »

But say I had a crash and I didn't have the other insurance and I made no payment on this one, would they off paid out? I very much doubt it.

I would expect them to cancel the policy from inception, because you hadn't paid.

As to losing in court, I don't know if anyone has tried yet,


It may also be covered in here

Have a look at


http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...egs/oft979.pdf

17. Forcing the deal
Including in marketing material an invoice or similar
document seeking payment which gives the consumer the
impression that he/she has already ordered the marketed
product when he/she has not.


29. Asking for payment when they didn’t ask
for the product
Demanding immediate or deferred payment for, or the
return or safekeeping of products supplied by the trader,
but not solicited by the consumer except where the product
is a substitute supplied in accordance with regulation 19(7)
of the Consumer Protection (distance selling) Regulations
2000 (this is known as inertia selling).

dunstonh

Mikey, inertia selling doesnt apply to auto renewal as you agree to it when you take the policy out.

Whilst not exactly the case here, there are a couple of FOS outcomes which have an element of auto renewal. 23/15 is probably the closest match and gives an indication of how the FOS would view it.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/23/iss23-ins-renewals.htm

These indicate that the FOS seem to have no problem with auto-renewal. Indeed, 23/14 was successful as previously auto-renewal had occurred each year but didnt this time.

23/15 had auto renewal and its clear the person didnt read the renewal notice and lost money. The FOS sided with the firm as it had made it clear in the renewal letter.

TCF should cover auto renewal and 23/15 can be used to reflect that. If the information is clearly shown on the renewal letter then the company is in the right. If its not clearly shown then they are in the wrong.

How_many_cowboys

Any idea on how fast FOS reply to emails?

ihateyes

How_many_cowboys wrote: »

Any idea on how fast FOS reply to emails?

They are on Auto Renew... one a year... you dont need to do anything!!

Seriously... did you complain officially with Direct Dial?? you need to exhaust their complaints procedure generally before the likes of FOS considers your complaint.

They wont, because your complaint is stupid....

Can you tell us here, one piece of their t&c's regarding renewal that wasnt clear or was unfair... because for a complaint to be sucessful, you need to have a good arguement... simply i cancelled by ddeb isnt an arguement.

As Mikey said some t&c's are unfair, what was so unfari about yours to warrant a complaint that should then be upheld....

dunstonh

How_many_cowboys wrote: »

Any idea on how fast FOS reply to emails?

You cannot go to the FOS unless you have been given permission by the firm. i.e. complain to them first and have been given a deadlock letter (one that gives their final response to your complaint and if you dont like it, it tells you that you can refer it to the FOS.

All the FOS will do now is forward your complaint to the firm. The FOS will not get involved in it.

How_many_cowboys

I know I'm caught by the short and curlies but been driving for 14 years and yes insured all the time, been with the last ones for about 4 years but chopped and changed before that no problems. To be honest never noticed the auto renewal before hand,how long has that been about roughly because it seems more and more people are complaining about it, Why change it from you shop about for the best quote,pay for the year lump sum or monthly payments,it runs out after the year, you do it again and then if you don't have insurance its your own fault but no someone had to create a catch, some ideas for the government, since the car tax voids the insurance if its runs out maybe we should give our bank details to the DVLA/post office and let them auto renew it or better yet same with the MOT, if the car is parked on the road and its ran out a local garage can pick it up, repair it,then bill the owner , think of the money the government can make through this.

InsideInsurance

Auto renewal has been about for more than 14 years..... if I remember correctly it was probably 15-16 years ago when Direct Line got into trouble for not telling people they were retaining card numbers for the pruposes of doing auto renewals and they had already been doing it for a few years at that point.

The government prefer the idea of picking up the car and crushing it rather than giving it its MOT. As to Tax Discs, it is certainly something that has been considered previously but the wheels of governmental agencies move exceptionally slowly.

dunstonh

To be honest never noticed the auto renewal before hand,how long has that been about roughly because it seems more and more people are complaining about it

About 20 years.

Why change it from you shop about for the best quote,pay for the year lump sum or monthly payments,it runs out after the year, you do it again and then if you don't have insurance its your own fault

1 - most people renew with the same insurer each year. So this caters for the majority
2 - its cheaper so it helps the premiums.

Personally, i dont like auto-renewal but it doesnt bother me that it exists. It only affects those that don't read their letters and you cant really blame the insurer for that.