Fat Cat

Rummer

We have a rescue cat who has had to join our vets practice obesity programme (he came to us that way). The vet has recommended that we put him on a controlled diet and mentioned the Royal Canin Obesity sachets, does anyone know where is the cheapest place to get them?

She did say that any other feline lighter diet would be appropriate but didn't mention other brands as they only stock the Royal Canin brand.

I would also appreciate any advice as to how to get him to exercise more. He has no interest in toys at all and we have been told to get him moving more so any suggestions would be welcome.

Just to state again we are attending the vet on a weekly basis so I am not asking for veterinary advice just suggestions as to the cheapest food source.

Fire_Fox

How old is your new cat? What types of toys does he have no interest in? Have you tried interactive or solo play toys that behave in a similar manner to real prey rather than 'dead' ones? Even if he does not react to catnip have you tried honeysuckle or valerian infused toys? Do you have a large sturdy cat tree for him to climb or other accessible high resting places? Is he very food oriented/ motivated?

Obviously it's up to you which brand you opt for, but do check the ingredients as carbohydrates - listed as grains, cereals, corn, wheat etc. - are associated with weight gain in susceptible cats and dogs (carbs are converted to blood sugar and then to fat!). Many diet foods are actually higher in carbohydrates than the rest of the range, which makes no sense when you consider obligate carnivores have no nutritional requirement for carbs!

rising_from_the_ashes

Hi, my girl's on Royal Canin Light (dry) http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/my_pet/cat_products/feline_care_nutrition/light.aspx (she's a pudge and I would love to get some weight off her - my boy's the total opposite and looks anorexic with bones showing everywhere - vet has checked & everything's OK - so it just shows that they're very like us in that some easily put on weight/struggle to get it off and others are very thin/can't gain it)!


If your cat likes meat rather than dry, I did a VERY quick search and found 48 pouches for £31.94
http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/cats/cat-food/royal-canin-veterinary-diets/Royal-Canin-Veterinary-Diets-Feline-Obesity-Wet-48x100g-Pouch.html and then bettered it with 12 for £7.50 http://www.docsimon.co.uk/article/royal-canin-obesity-management-cat-12x-100g (48 = £30) - but I'm sure may be able to better this with a more thorough search!

How much has your vet quoted for them?


Re exercise - it's usually the simple things that can have the best results. My girl will play fetch for hours with the top (ripped off) part of a food pouch or a bit of paper crunched up in a ball.

I've also recently got her one of these http://www.petsathome.com/shop/cat-feeding-exercise-ball-by-slim-cat-37579 which would be good if he's food orientated and you could pop a bit of dry food in there.

Good luck

rising_from_the_ashes

Forgot to say - PAH have some good offers on Royal Canin from midnight tonight (online only, while stocks last) so you may be able to pick something up there http://www.petsathome.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10551&crt=KGZyZWVfdGV4dD09KCBSQzF0bzQpKQ%3D%3D&ref1=10708&freeText=RC1to4&langId=-1&catalogId=10601

Rummer

Fire_Fox wrote: »

How old is your new cat? He is approx 8 What types of toys does he have no interest in? Have you tried interactive or solo play toys that behave in a similar manner to real prey rather than 'dead' ones? We have tried a huge variety of toys including things we dangle over him, balls, running mice and other interactive toys all with no response. Even if he does not react to catnip have you tried honeysuckle or valerian infused toys? Never tried honeysuckle or valerian will give them a try as he does not respond to catnip at all. Do you have a large sturdy cat tree for him to climb or other accessible high resting places? We had a large climbing thing and none of our cats ever went near it so we rehomed it. Is he very food oriented/ motivated? Even though he is so big he is not food motivated and in fact does not eat very much. We have got him a collar that says please do not feed me in case neighbours are giving him anything

Obviously it's up to you which brand you opt for, but do check the ingredients as carbohydrates - listed as grains, cereals, corn, wheat etc. - are associated with weight gain in susceptible cats and dogs (carbs are converted to blood sugar and then to fat!). Many diet foods are actually higher in carbohydrates than the rest of the range, which makes no sense when you consider obligate carnivores have no nutritional requirement for carbs!

Thank you for all the advice and suggestions, I will be careful when I have a look at the diet foods.

Rummer

rising_from_the_ashes wrote: »

Hi, my girl's on Royal Canin Light (dry) http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/my_pet/cat_products/feline_care_nutrition/light.aspx (she's a pudge and I would love to get some weight off her - my boy's the total opposite and looks anorexic with bones showing everywhere - vet has checked & everything's OK - so it just shows that they're very like us in that some easily put on weight/struggle to get it off and others are very thin/can't gain it)! Do you let both cats eat the same food? We have three cats, two are a normal weight and our curvy boy. That is why we thought about wet food so we could ensure each was getting food to meet their needs.


If your cat likes meat rather than dry, I did a VERY quick search and found 48 pouches for £31.94
http://www.animeddirect.co.uk/cats/cat-food/royal-canin-veterinary-diets/Royal-Canin-Veterinary-Diets-Feline-Obesity-Wet-48x100g-Pouch.html and then bettered it with 12 for £7.50 http://www.docsimon.co.uk/article/royal-canin-obesity-management-cat-12x-100g (48 = £30) - but I'm sure may be able to better this with a more thorough search!

How much has your vet quoted for them? They said the approx cost was 86p per sachet and he would need 3 a day :eek:


Re exercise - it's usually the simple things that can have the best results. My girl will play fetch for hours with the top (ripped off) part of a food pouch or a bit of paper crunched up in a ball. He shows no interest in playing fetch at all even with shiny tin foil which our others can't resist :rotfl:

I've also recently got her one of these http://www.petsathome.com/shop/cat-feeding-exercise-ball-by-slim-cat-37579 which would be good if he's food orientated and you could pop a bit of dry food in there.

Good luck

Thank you for all the great links!

rising_from_the_ashes

Rummer wrote: »

Do you let both cats eat the same food? We have three cats, two are a normal weight and our curvy boy. That is why we thought about wet food so we could ensure each was getting food to meet their needs.

This is where it gets really odd .......

There are 2 bowls down with about 6 feet between them (my cats don't get on) - one has RC Light in and the other RC Indoor 27.

She dutifully walks over to the Light and eats it and him to the Indoor - they NEVER eat each others!:cool:

I have no idea why, they sometimes go for a sniff at the other bowl but it just doesn't seem to interest them - I was worried at the start as I thought the Light might not taste as good and she'd ignore it and eat the Indoor one, but no:D

There's usually a 3rd bowl down somewhere in the middle of the two which I put something else for them to "graze" on which they both pick at (I'm actually thinking of getting rid of this as they're really not that bothered - bought a bag of Arden Grange Light last week as wanted to try it as much cheaper than the RC and also for the "grazing" option but NEITHER of them has touched it)!

Rummer wrote: »

They said the approx cost was 86p per sachet and he would need 3 a day :eek:

:eek:You're right!:eek:

With the £30 for 48 that would be 62p/pouch (£1.86/day) so better than 86p (2.58/day) but still a fairly substantial amount as I'd think it may take a while to shift the weight (depending on how much he needs to loose).

Rummer wrote: »

He shows no interest in playing fetch at all even with shiny tin foil which our others can't resist :rotfl:

Oh, little monkey:D Once he starts to lose a bit and get more active he'll get more interested in playing. Few other suggestions:

Have you got a table/desk etc in a room he uses - balance a pen over the edge so he has to stretch up to "get it" and then plays with it when it falls on the floor.

Mine have something similar to this (doesn't have the bit in the middle) http://www.petsathome.com/shop/cheese-chase-3-in-1-cat-toy-by-petstages-15058 or http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/cat_toys/miscellaneous/trixie/13546 - it was actually bought for my old cat but has survived many years. Both mine play with this on and off on a fairly regular basis and it's really funny watching them run round and round it trying to get the ball out!:)

Fire_Fox

Rummer wrote: »

Thank you for all the advice and suggestions, I will be careful when I have a look at the diet foods.

I always ask a load of questions, it's great to get a full response! :T I presume his thyroid and pituitary function has been tested? It's just that you say he arrived overweight yet has little appetite, seems strange to have found 'restaurants' so quickly. Did he have no appetite when he first arrived and you were keeping him indoors?

Some cats do only seem to like toys that act like real prey, Da Bird is arguably the best, it flutters surprisingly realistically. Some are not so keen on the feathers but adore Da Mouse (not like any other mouse toy, tiny and shimmies on carpet), my last boy was frightened of Da Mouse but went nuts for Da Sparkler (swishes and glitters). As you have other cats, there is no way you will waste your money! :money:

I've also had success with two cats who 'don't play' (aka fussy devils) using the Original Dragonfly, which again moves so realistically once you suss the wrist flick but it's not cheap so I'd try Da Bird and various attachments first. Again higher risk is the Bergan Turbo Track but you must get the flashing ball to get real interest. If you buy it and it is successful, I highly recommend extra straights and an extra set as you can make the cat run around more. This is also sold in the Purrs shop I linked to for Da Bird (as I always say, all profits to cat rescue and top notch service).

Have you tried a laser pointer? They are cheap and wind up the majority of cats. Honeysuckle is difficult to get tho Purrs shop has it, for valerian you cannot beat Kwayzecatz, tho again Purrs stock them if you are placing an order anyway.

rising_from_the_ashes wrote: »

my boy's the total opposite and looks anorexic with bones showing everywhere - vet has checked & everything's OK - so it just shows that they're very like us in that some easily put on weight/struggle to get it off and others are very thin/can't gain it)!

This is largely a myth, barring health conditions obesity is a function of calories in versus calories out. Research consistently shows that overweight people underestimate the amount of food they eat and overestimate the amount of exercise they do. Furthermore slim people have been shown to move and fidget more during activities of daily living compared with larger ones. How much muscle you carry dictates our metabolic rate, hence why men can get away with eating more than women, and why sedentary people find they gain weight more easily as they age. I see female clients time and time again who simply don't work hard enough when exercising to have any impact on their body, it's not laziness they just don't know what they are physically capable of.

Going back to cats, have you tried your boy on a grain-free diet? Sorry to be crude but do you know what his toilet habits are like? Felines are obligate carnivores, they have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates, they are evolved to process meat protein and saturated (animal) fat. Many cats cannot properly digest/ are intolerant to carbs to a greater or lesser extent, which means a lot of the calories end up in the litter tray. Fat is approximately twice the calories per gram of carbs so a higher protein, higher fat food is more nutritious and more calorific weight for weight. There was a lady posting a while back here on MSE with a fatty and skinny cat, she switched to a low grain diet for both and was astounded to find both their weights normalising.

rising_from_the_ashes

Fire_Fox wrote: »

There was a lady posting a while back here on MSE with a fatty and skinny cat, she switched to a low grain diet for both and was astounded to find both their weights normalising.

Ohhhhhh, that's really interesting, thanks:D

I must investigate that a bit more as would love to sort out "pudgy" and "skinny"!

Rummer

Been shopping today and he is now resplendent in a do not feed me collar and he has a box filled with different toys that I am going to persevere with so I got him a laser light, a feathery sparkly thing and a plastic thing with a ball that races round it.

I keep getting conflicting advice as to the best approach to feeding and my head is spinning with it all so I am going to set aside some time and do some proper research.

He has an appointment at kitty diet camp at the start of the week so they will hopefully have some advice for me

Fire_Fox

Rummer wrote: »

Been shopping today and he is now resplendent in a do not feed me collar and he has a box filled with different toys that I am going to persevere with so I got him a laser light, a feathery sparkly thing and a plastic thing with a ball that races round it.

I keep getting conflicting advice as to the best approach to feeding and my head is spinning with it all so I am going to set aside some time and do some proper research.

He has an appointment at kitty diet camp at the start of the week so they will hopefully have some advice for me

Has thyroid and pituitary function been tested and have you been clear about the ongoing lack of appetite?

If they suggest a commercial food, ask for a detailed explanation of why they believe to be the most beneficial to an obligate carnivore with a weight problem - which specific macronutrients (fat, protein, carbs) or ingredients (meat meal, cereals, oils, plant protein). Also ask if they can guide you to a specific nutrition/ weight management textbook referring to those ingredients or published research papers referring to that formulation. Take notes if it's not your field of expertise so you can check on Google Scholar or ask here.

Bear in mind if you restrict calories at the same time as introducing a new food, it's impossible to say whether the food or calorie restriction or both are causing the weight loss. Also bear in mind that when you restrict calories there is a risk of restricting the intake of micronutrients (vitamins, minerals, EFAs). That is one of the reasons why nutrition consultations will advise the dieter to remove the empty calories/ junk food from the diet and eat more nutrient-dense wholefoods.

This article refers to studies in cats, but does not link to them, might be worth contacting her? I had some links on my old laptop but it died and I lost a ton of stuff, grrr!!
http://www.catinfo.org/
https://www.mousabilities.com/nutrition/campaign/CarbStudies.doc
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/8/2087S.full