Online purchase - who pays P&P charges to return if faulty after several months?

ilovegreyhounds

Hi everyone :j
This is my first post so apologies if I do something wrong - like post in the wrong place or ramble....:eek:
I've checked the boards but there seems to be contradictory answers to the same questions? I'm hoping I can get the facts right so I can be forwarned and forearmed before I confront my retailer. Any help would be much appreciated.

I bought 4 dining chairs (and some other things) online from Dwell in Nov 10. I didn't actually start using the chairs until Dec 10 (so we're probably just past the 6 month period) as they were for my kitchen and it wasn't finished until then. The chairs (if you're interested) are the walnut back dining chair white - £89ea. 3 of the chairs are used daily while the fourth is rarely used. Well, the 3 chairs that are used are now shabby and tired looking around the edges. The chair seat and back has piping around the frame which has developed holes - some are small like pinpricks but quite a lot are large and noticeable. The main part of the seat and back is fine, it's just the piping around the edges that is at fault.

I will be ringing the retailer today but I wanted to know what my rights are regarding the P&P cost of returning them. I don't mind swallowing the cost I've already paid to receive them as I received other items at the same time (however, I won't reject it if they do offer to reimburse ). However, to return 4 chairs is going to be expensive as I'll have to get a courier (and 4 big boxes - don't even know where to start!!). Can I insist that they collect or that they pay my return costs? What part of online selling regs or Sale of Goods Act should I quote if this is the case?

Also, I don't want them to replace them as I feel sure the same thing would happen with replacements. I don't think the faux leather is hardy enough to withstand continual use so I think a refund is the only way to go. I'm assuming however that they'll make a deduction for the use I've already had so what would be fair in these circumstances? Personally I would expect dining chairs to last at least 5 years so if I apply that logic, I've had c.12% of their use meaning I should let them deduct £10.68 for each chair's use so far. Does this seem fair?

Like I say, any help would be greatly appreciated before I confront them later today. You never know, I might not actually need any help as they might be responsible retailers and tell me my rights but I'm sad to say, that would be a first for me......:)

stugib

ilovegreyhounds wrote: »

Also, I don't want them to replace them as I feel sure the same thing would happen with replacements. I don't think the faux leather is hardy enough to withstand continual use so I think a refund is the only way to go.

I'd get over that hurdle before you worry about P&P to return them.

They're entitled to try and repair/replace them before they consider a partial refund.

Forwandert

stugib wrote: »

I'd get over that hurdle before you worry about P&P to return them.

They're entitled to try and repair/replace them before they consider a partial refund.

Also as you have had the goods over 6 months you may need an independant report proving the goods have a manufacturing fault, if the retailer disputes the damage.

ilovegreyhounds

Hi
Thanks very much for your response but I still need to know the answer. I've read the t&c on the retailers website and it states:

Damaged, Defective or Incorrect Goods
If your purchase is not fit for purpose, is misdescribed, faulty, damaged, or incorrectly supplied, please contact us as soon as possible to arrange a refund or replacement. We will require you to return the item, as it may be necessary to return it to the manufacturer.
The t&c also state:

The goods we sell are for consumers for general domestic use only and must be used for the intended purpose. All products carry a first year manufacture’s guarantee however, this does not cover accidental damage or misuse of the item. If the product is taking outside of the UK it will invalidate the warranty.

(I don't know what they mean by a manufacturers guarantee as my contract is with them and they could be 2 years old and I'd still argue they were contrary to the sale of goods act).

So when I ring them, I'm expecting them to ask me to send them back....so the question remains....who pays?

visidigi

They may send someone out to inspect the damage rather than you having to return them directly to them to be reviewed.

As to who pays, tricky one - realistically I would guess they are going to say they are damaged through use - based ont he fact the surfaces are in good condition but the piping isn't - also reconsituted leather is no replacement for leather on a high traffic item such as a kitchen chair. Problem is, you state they are dining chairs used in the kitchen - so not specifically designed for everyday high traffic use.

I suspect they aren't faulty, and you might be told you're using them for a purpose and frequency beyond the functional design. e.g. its a non-daily usa dinig chair in a high usage environment.

Also I think the 12% usage charge reduction maybe somewhat optomistic - i would expect it to be closer to 20-25% reduction based on my personal past situations with similar issues.

wealdroam

Firstly, you and the retailer need to come to an understanding about whether the 'damage' was due to fair wear and tear or whether it was due to an inherent fault.

It is likely that the seller will attribute the damage to fair wear and tear.

After six months from purchase the onus is on the purchaser to prove that the fault was inherent. You may need to obtain an experts report that confirms that the fault is/was inherent.

Once it has been decided that there is a manufacturing fault, then it is clear that the retailer must bear the cost of remedy, including any carriage costs.

That remedy could be a repair, replacement or refund.
Your choice, but the seller can refuse your choice if it is to costly for him (or words to that effect).
The remedy, e.g. repair, should not cause you significant inconvenience.

If you have problems, there is a furniture ombudsman who may be able to help.

ilovegreyhounds

All very valid points and some that I didn't even consider. Aren't I glad I posted on here before making my mouth go! :eek:

The point I suppose I'm most concerned about is the one about the chairs being dining as oppose to kitchen chairs. A very good point and one that I just didn't give that much thought to, although I did think about it. My rationale was that a dining chair was more of a smart chair e.g. suede, leather, good wood etc. whereas the criteria for a kitchen chair was a surface that could be wiped down daily without negative effect.

Also, surely any dining chair is also a kitchen chair by virtue of the fact that you will be using it to sit at a table to eat food? When you type 'kitchen chair' in google, you only get a couple of sites that offer kitchen chairs, the rest offer dining chairs. The description doesn't say 'only to be used occasionally in a dining room setting' and not to be used every day (although plenty of people eat at their dining tables on a daily basis I'm sure?)

Please don't think I'm being argumantative, it's just it is a valid point and I need to have my answers ready before taking this forward so your opinions are very useful.

What does everyone think?

ilovegreyhounds

or even argumentative...would help if I could spell!

Flyboy152

ilovegreyhounds wrote: »

Hi
Thanks very much for your response but I still need to know the answer. I've read the t&c on the retailers website and it states:

Damaged, Defective or Incorrect Goods
If your purchase is not fit for purpose, is misdescribed, faulty, damaged, or incorrectly supplied, please contact us as soon as possible to arrange a refund or replacement. We will require you to return the item, as it may be necessary to return it to the manufacturer.
The t&c also state:

The goods we sell are for consumers for general domestic use only and must be used for the intended purpose. All products carry a first year manufacture’s guarantee however, this does not cover accidental damage or misuse of the item. If the product is taking outside of the UK it will invalidate the warranty.

(I don't know what they mean by a manufacturers guarantee as my contract is with them and they could be 2 years old and I'd still argue they were contrary to the sale of goods act).

So when I ring them, I'm expecting them to ask me to send them back....so the question remains....who pays?

How far away are they?

ThumbRemote

I would ignore any sort of kitchen/dining chairs argument. If they are dining chairs they are meant for frequent daily use, presumably three times a day or more. If that's the wear they've had, be it in the kitchen or a dining room, then you've not misused them.

You are basically claiming under the Sale of Goods Act, that the chairs are not of satisfactory quality. That should be your main argument to the retailer.

ilovegreyhounds

Thanks ThumRemote. I agree, they're just chairs we use to sit on to eat our food at the kitchen table - dining is dining.

I will be quoting the SOGA to further my cause and if necessary, I will get a report from a furniture expert (any ideas anyone, where to start with this part?) If the expert agrees that they're not fit for purpose etc. will they have to refund this fee too?

I suppose it is immaterial at this stage who pays to return them because I will probably have to get a report done first.

I'll keep you updated with how I egt on. Wish me luck.