Fob's employer won't hand over the child support to the CSA! - UPDATE

K,A+P_2

Argh, what a wind up!

I rang the CSA last month to find out what had happened to May's payment. A detachment of earnings order is in place. They told me that they hadn't yet received the money from the employer and they also let me know that FOB had been in touch with them to let them know of a "change of circumstances", but they couldn't tell me any details yet due to confidentiality etc.

I've been ringing the CSA almost every day for the past 3-4 weeks and this is the situation so far:

The CSA rang FOB to find out what had happened to the money, and he told them that the money had already been taken from his wages, so the responsibility was with his employer. So the CSA had to wait for his employer to pass the money on to themselves.

They contacted his employer to find out where the money was, and after days of trying to get through to their payroll department, they finally reached someone who told them that a cheque had been sent out on the 16th of May and that it "must have been lost in the post". They said that they'd send out another cheque asap.

A week later, still no cheque. CSA got onto them again and asked them to send over the numbers/details from this cheque so they could put the numbers into their system and see if the cheque was ever received. The employer agreed to get back to them with the details, but never bothered.

Another week later and the CSA got hold of them again. By this point however, it had come to light that FOB had been made redundant the week before, which was what he'd contacted the CSA about before, to warn them about. The employer apologised for the delay and said it was due to all the redundancies. They agreed to send out another cheque.

Cheque never materialised again, no surprise there. I rang the CSA again on wednesday and they said that they'd get hold of the employer and ask them to make a card payment/bank transfer over the phone. Haven't heard anything back, so I'll be ringing again on monday.

This has been going on for almost a month now. FOB has paid the child support and the money is there, waiting to be put into my bank account....but these tw*ts are holding my child's money!

It's looking so dodgy to me, and maybe I am being ridiculous...but what's not to stop the employer keeping the money and !!!!!!ing off? I'm now behind on bills because I've been down by nearly £200 since the middle of may.

The CSA have said that they're giving the employer till the 19th of June (this sunday) to pay it, before they get the "criminal compliance team" involved. But what good is that going to do?

What a ridiculous situation. Not sure why I'm posting this, just needed to vent!

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Just to update - they've paid! I rang the CSA today and they told me that the employer finally paid yesterday. What a relief! They had until the 19th before the criminal compliance team stepped in - they paid on the 20th, at least it got sorted in the end! Thanks for all your advice!

kelloggs36

the criminal compliance team will send out an officer to visit the employer - they have warrants and so they can demand payment and take legal action if it is not forthcoming. It still may take a while as the CC team will make contact and wait responses, so you will have to be patient. Ask the case officer to stress how long it has gone on with the CC team so that they may speed up their action and visit sooner rather than later. Sadly where child support is concerned, there are so many possible reasons for delay which impacts on the PWC and their finances, yet there is no legal redress for this, other than a small compensatory payment. You are correct that the employer COULD potentially keep the money, but legally the NRP remains liable for the missing payment and will ultimately end up paying twice - maybe you ought to try to get your ex to put pressure on the employer too as it is he that will bear the punishment in the end.

DUTR

kelloggs36 wrote: »

the criminal compliance team will send out an officer to visit the employer - they have warrants and so they can demand payment and take legal action if it is not forthcoming. It still may take a while as the CC team will make contact and wait responses, so you will have to be patient. Ask the case officer to stress how long it has gone on with the CC team so that they may speed up their action and visit sooner rather than later. Sadly where child support is concerned, there are so many possible reasons for delay which impacts on the PWC and their finances, yet there is no legal redress for this, other than a small compensatory payment. You are correct that the employer COULD potentially keep the money, but legally the NRP remains liable for the missing payment and will ultimately end up paying twice - maybe you ought to try to get your ex to put pressure on the employer too as it is he that will bear the punishment in the end.

Have to say I disagree with that part, the NRP has proof that his deduction was made and beyond that they have done their bit.
I think the OP will get her monies via the csa but will be in the queue of anybody else that the company owes money to

missbunbury

DUTR wrote: »

Have to say I disagree with that part, the NRP has proof that his deduction was made and beyond that they have done their bit.
I think the OP will get her monies via the csa but will be in the queue of anybody else that the company owes money to

This isn't right. In law, if the employer fails to pass on the money, it is the NRP who is responsible for paying it even if it's already been deducted. He or she is then expected to pursue the company for the money. Not saying it's fair or right, but this is the legal position.

PreludeForTimeFeelers

DUTR wrote: »

Have to say I disagree with that part, the NRP has proof that his deduction was made and beyond that they have done their bit.
I think the OP will get her monies via the csa but will be in the queue of anybody else that the company owes money to

You can disagree, but Kelloggs is correct though, it's the other way around, the NRP will be the one who is in the queue of people who the company owes.

Ultimately the NRP owes the money to the PWC (via the CSA)...it may be through no fault of his own that the money hasn't been sent in, but the child maintenance hasn't been paid.

Blob

It also works that way when 'Heaven forbid' the CSA make a mess of the case it is the NRP that has to carry the responsibility fort he mess. Nothing new there then the poor old NRP pays what they have to and then get landed on for doing that and have to pay twice. Makes you wounder just what the people at the CSA get paid for, messing it up per chance!

DUTR

missbunbury wrote: »

This isn't right. In law, if the employer fails to pass on the money, it is the NRP who is responsible for paying it even if it's already been deducted. He or she is then expected to pursue the company for the money. Not saying it's fair or right, but this is the legal position.

So what you are saying is that the NRP can pay the CSA and if they fail to pass it on to the PWC then the NRP still has to pay again? That is little different, Listening to the radio this morning, seems Mr cameron has shot himself in the foot, NRP's are now called runaway dad's :eek:

missbunbury

DUTR wrote: »

So what you are saying is that the NRP can pay the CSA and if they fail to pass it on to the PWC then the NRP still has to pay again? That is little different, Listening to the radio this morning, seems Mr cameron has shot himself in the foot, NRP's are now called runaway dad's :eek:

No, what I am saying is that the NRP is responsible for ensuring the CSA get the money to pass to the PWC. It's the same as if my payroll at work were to mess up and fail to pay me, it wouldn't mean I didn't have to pay my mortgage. I'd have to find the money from somewhere and then pursue my employer for the money they owed me. In the OP's case, there is confusion over whether the employer can be got into trouble for not paying - the answer is yes, but not until next week, because an employer legally has until the nineteenth of the following month to pass on to the CSA the money they have deducted from any month's payroll.

In this case the NRP isn't paying the CSA, his employer is, and they have failed to do so this month for some reason. If the money isn't forthcoming then the employer can be prosecuted for failing to pay it, but ultimately it's still the NRP who is responsible for the debt. If I were an NRP, I wouldn't pay via DEO for exactly this reason.

PreludeForTimeFeelers

A lot of NRPs aren't paying by DEO by choice, but your wages/mortgage analogy is spot on.

Blob

BS I got a DEO for following the instructions of the CSA to the letter!! Then then made a number of unforced errors that allegedly made the DEO invalid, took it to Court and guess what it don't matter as they cant look into it!

I asked the last Judge to have the Order that he made for the arrears covered by a DEO and the CSA did not want this, if your not confused by now you are better than everyone that has had dealings with this case! They could not agree on anything let alone what the Law actually states, I have said it before and will possibly say it again, they are a complete waste of time, and in the words of the then Prime Minister "Unfit for purpose and have systemic failings top to bottom"

DUTR

missbunbury wrote: »

No, what I am saying is that the NRP is responsible for ensuring the CSA get the money to pass to the PWC. It's the same as if my payroll at work were to mess up and fail to pay me, it wouldn't mean I didn't have to pay my mortgage. I'd have to find the money from somewhere and then pursue my employer for the money they owed me. In the OP's case, there is confusion over whether the employer can be got into trouble for not paying - the answer is yes, but not until next week, because an employer legally has until the nineteenth of the following month to pass on to the CSA the money they have deducted from any month's payroll.

In this case the NRP isn't paying the CSA, his employer is, and they have failed to do so this month for some reason. If the money isn't forthcoming then the employer can be prosecuted for failing to pay it, but ultimately it's still the NRP who is responsible for the debt. If I were an NRP, I wouldn't pay via DEO for exactly this reason.

I would agree except that if the CSA adopt a DEO it is up to them to ensure they get the monies, as mentioned som NRP's do not have the choice but to pay via DEO, the anology of mortgage is different, if my lender had suggested they had not recieved monies but I have proof on my bank statement to suggest otherwise, then it is between the lender and the bank, I suppose I could be called as a witness to confirm the monies had been deducted, but even so if I were then in that situation, then once the monies is passed back to me I could then forward it onto the correct reipient.
I had a period where the csa kept refunding my monies of the SO and then contacted me to say I they had not recieved the money, it was their own error on that occasion.