Please help:we are desperate with this vendor/freeholder

seven-day-weekend

Sorry to drop a spanner in the works, but you do need to know what's what: you will need planning permission for your velux window (even if the freeholder agrees) as flats have no Permitted Development Rights. Bear in mind that there is a chance that this may not be granted.

Wishing you luck!

EdInvestor

Quite so about the window.I am not surprised that no-one wants to talk to you about varying the lease to allow pets. If this is done, what do you think the other 9 leaseholders whose leases disallow pets are going to say?

I doubt that you will get your freeholder to do this.It's not the way things work. And since your landlord/ vendor/leaseholder is breaking the terms of his lease by allowing you to have pets, I'm not at all surprised he doesn't want to speak to the freeholder about it.

If you can't live with the lease as is it, you'd better look elsewhere, or just stay put on your AST (and keep quiet about your existing pets.)

pigeonpie

All leases in England ban pets without freeholder approval, so we are trying to get a letter saying he'll waive the lease for our pets if he won't do a DoV. That's 2nd choice as it is ok for us but we can't pass the permission on when we sell.
There are other tenants/owners who want pets, but not everyone.
The vendor is happy to speak to the freeholder about pets and the latter has previously verbally agreed - it's getting him to get off his butt and put it in writing that is so difficult. Plus our solicitor went for a DoV not just permission originally as the anti pet clause is unusual in that it says that permission can be revoked at any time with no reasonableness (is that a word?) rider.
We are banking on this place going sof within a year.

EdInvestor

pigeonpie wrote:

All leases in England ban pets without freeholder approval...

Actually the leases I've seen ban pets full stop, there is no freeholder approval (or non-approval) involved .I would doubt that you'll be able to get this changed just for one flat in a building. Normally what happens is that the other owners don't mind people having pets, as long as they are not a nuisance.But if they do cause a problem, then the ban, which is common to all the leases, is invoked to force the pet's removal.This arrangement is fair to all the occupants of the building, wherease what you're proposing would not be fair. Can you see that?

We are banking on this place going sof within a year.

Why? Are you sure that share of freehold is better?

pigeonpie

Can see that changing just one lease could be a problem so it may be better to just get a licence or letter on that. That wouldn't take him very long but....
But you know this is one of the few countries in the world where leases ban pets. Where I lived before (France) it is illegal to ban pets. They aren't obviously allowed to be a nuisance to other owners, but this has to be proved as no nasty neighbour can just claim your pet is annoying them just to get at you without proof. However this isn't going to happen in England (don't know what Scotland's like on property law).

So far there are 4 new owners (of 10), with us that would make 5 so that would be 50% of nice people. Hopefully the other flats won't be sold to difficult or unreasonable people. Then a sof would be way better than this freeholder and his managing agents (who took 3 months with us all in the dark to send an electrician to fix the hallway sensor lights). The tenants here pay a fortune in buildings insurance as the freeholder has a global policy covering his 250 properties. There is no sinking fund either.
the only bone of contention could be what he wants for the freehold.

franklee

Sorry but I don't think you are being reasonable. Your vendor can say what he likes but that isn't worth anything as he does not have the authority here, the freeholder does. I think you are underestimating what you are asking for. Allowing pets is a big deal if all the other flat owners have purchased expecting no pets. I would be mad as hell if pets were suddenly allowed into a block that I purchased in with no pets allowed. What's more you are already keeping pets there against the lease!

You are not being clear of it's a new block but go on to say that there are 4 new owners out of 10 and you would make the 5th. Does that mean there are 5 flats still up for sale? Even if the current four owners would not mind your pets, what about the other five buyers? Is it fair that they buy and have the rules changed or are you expecting the freeholder to change the lease for prospective buyers too? If so will that make the remaining five flats harder to sell?

I think you need to look at this from other peoples point of view.

The rest of the management issues, no sinking fund etc. sound like a nightmare, the buildings insurance issue is dodgy. If it were me I'd continue renting the flat for now and move the pets out as they have no right to be there!

pigeonpie

We have permission to keep cats from the landlord and it is in the rental lease. So did at least 2 other tenants in the building. It's a conversion btw.
The freeholder agreed verbally some months ago when this whole saga started. He doesn't like dogs but said he is ok with cats. But obviously if potential neighbours have such extreme animal hating views then it's even more important that we get his written permission. Our solicitor put it in a DoV. It sounds like it should have gone into a licence so that it is a permission specific to us. If we change it now, he will regard it as a new application and we'll be further delayed.
I feel even more desperate.

I'm sorry but people with views like Franklee's make me very scared and depressed. Our indoor cats don't bother anyone. No neighbour even sees them unless they come into my flat or see them in a carrier going out the door to the vet. How can keeping them as my companions make someone so angry and talk about devaluing their flat?
I understand if people leave big messy dogs to run around in the common areas or bark all day, of course I do. But that's 'nuisance' and unreasonable.

tomstickland

I live in a block of flats with a no pets rule. Neighbour has a dog, neighbour above has a cat. No permission asked for. The rules are there to help us, so if someone had a nuisance pet we could do something about it.

pigeonpie

tomstickland wrote:

I live in a block of flats with a no pets rule. Neighbour has a dog, neighbour above has a cat. No permission asked for. The rules are there to help us, so if someone had a nuisance pet we could do something about it.

Hi Tom, that's fine I reckon. I don't want to be a nuisance. I don't play loud music late at night etc either. In fact our neighbour says he plays his PC games with headphones as we are so quiet that they are worried about disturbing us, as our bedroom is their lounge wall. (sadly they aren't buying their flat).
The freeholder has apparently told the vendor that he doesn't mind cats but he doesn't like DoVs as can't be bothered with the work involved. So we have to try to get a letter in early Jan. He's had the requests for 2 months but says he's so busy. The freeholder I know down the road here has 200 properties and his turn around time for consents is 3 days on simple ones and 2 weeks if he has to refer it to his solicitor - bit different from our bloke!
sorry must try to calm down but it all makes me so anxious. I haven't had a proper home for years, since 1995. (don't count temp rentals as 'home').

Merry Xmas. I'll be asking Santa for a letter :-)

franklee

Of course it depends on the pet, the owner and the layout of the building. You live on the top floor of a ten flat block. Unless you have a front door opening with direct access to outside your pets will come and go through the communal areas. Unlike dogs, cats could easily follow someone else in when you are not there and then be left in the hall/stairs area.

Even if your pets are well behaved then it's still a hassle for the freeholder as you will be setting a president. Say your new neighbour really wants a dog but the freeholder says no and yet you have cats. Do you not think that will cause grief especially for the freeholder? I can picture other owners saying "my cats/dogs/goldfish are not a nuisance but I'm not allowed to keep them despite my neighbour having pets, it's not fair...".

Either the block is pet free or it isn't. There are many people who want to live in a pet free block if the lease says so. That's more hassle for the freeholder. I can picture other owners saying "The lease says no pets but half the neighbours have them, it's not fair...".

If people keep pets against the rules discreetly and they really are not a problem then at least the other flat owners still have the protection of the lease if it does become an issue.

As for the tenancy agreement that's not relevant here. It just means it's your landlord who is responsible for braking the flat's lease rather then yourself. Perhaps at the time he thought the freeholder would not find out.

So I think you are giving the freeholder a headache which is why he's been slow. I suspect he said yes initially without thinking it through and his solicitors have pointed out out the problems. So I'd cut him a bit of slack here and be patient. He could have just said no and hasn't.