Public sector wellcome to the real world

Moby

Jegersmart wrote: »

There will always be contention in the private vs public sector debates. So we can stick to facts:

Public Sector workers do not create wealth, they are merely a cost to the country's taxpayers - and both the civil servant in question as well as me (for example) pay for his or her salary through taxes. In some respects the Government has to tread a very fine line between providing employment and becoming too high a cost to the taxpayer base. The public sector has grown enormously since the 1950/60's in the UK - and in some areas of the country are the major employer by a mile. Is this right? Do we need such a big public sector? I don't know the answers, but I do know that taxpayers not in the employ of the public sector globally are propping up the system. How long can this last? What can we do to address the balance towards private sector so we can all benefit? On a stronger note, when are the taxpayers going to stand up and refuse to be taken for a ride by the goverment, banks, corporations and so on? A question or debate for another thread perhaps?

Very simplistic and crude. I create wealth by protecting the fabric of society thereby allowing those in the private sector a safe environment in which to express their entrepreneurial skills and make more dosh. You are not 'propping anyone up' Don't inflate your own self importance. When the chips are down ....you ring 999! Teachers educate your kids, the NHS deals with your health....what could be more important than these things?

Like a different system of lower taxes but privatised services?....go to the States. Yes there are the rich with their insurance policies to protect them but the poor go to the wall and those in the middle work very hard to keep themselves above water! Our system is better and people need to appreciate their public services more!

cyclonebri1

bigjl wrote: »

Whatever, you really dopn't reads anything properly, that is why you end up getting the wrong end of the stick all the time.

Start by reading things properly, then reread if you don't understand something.

All the information is there.

All contained in various posts on the forum, so run along and read my posts properly then you will actually have some idea what you are talking about.

Your just making yourself look silly now.

The problem with making smart comments, is that you need to have read and understood the whole of story, otherwise you end up with eg on your face like you have.

Ok I have corrected my post to show you what I have found offensive, it wasn't post #508, I'll let you read back to find the edited one. (it's #490 if you need a clue)

I have also read everything you've had to say on this subject and it's amazing, I've never heard so many unrelated issues dragged into a thread on pensions, you really do have a chip on your shoulder the size of a small tree.

I must have read the use of the words "benefit claiming underclass" 5 times, what is your problem.
And you think I have egg on my face? Take your own advice and read what you have written and see if that's a balanced view of the situation that you have tried to manipulate from the 1st post you made.

Here's a post of yours, #491, that maybe goes someway to explain your bitterness to all outside the NHS. Quote;

"Today I sit here reading this thread full of lealousy and bitterness, look at my payslip and realise that I still earn less than before I joined the NHS"

Old_Slaphead

Moby wrote: »

! Teachers educate your kids, the NHS deals with your health....what could be more important than these things?

Nothing.

It's the armies of bureaucrats, the proliferation on non-jobs, quangos, inflexible & antiquated working practices etc etc that most people object to.

Working in a SME I am swamped with rules, regulations, government form-filling etc etc. The last government did much to discourage entrepreneurship.

The public sector has increased in size from 5million to 6.2million people in the last decade - this at a time when many of the lower paid jobs have been contracted out.

Front line services - fine but armies of middle managers and bureaucrats needs cutting back drastically.

On the subject of pensions - the raison-d'etre for the final salary scheme was to compensate for low public sector pay. As a generalisation, that is no longer the case so, going forward, those paid average or above average remuneration should move to a DC scheme whilst the FS option should remain only for those on a relatively low wage.

toshy

The current review of public sector pensions is essentially a cost-cutting exercise. I totally agree that the cost of public services could be reduced and especially if efficiency and effectiveness was reviewed.
I also totally agree with removal of the tiers of management which is a huge drain on every-one with very little real benefit. However I do not agree with an across the board cut in job benefits especially when many front-line areas of the public service often struggle to find sufficient suitably qualified applicants and often need to accept overseas workers (note I avoid the word immigrant as this does appear to have been somewhat contentious!) Certainly in the teaching profession and at the school where I work we have had to employ many teachers from Australia. USA, Russia to name but a few, simply because there have been no suitable applicants from the U.K. Also in an attempt to address the shortfall, the government have offered additional cash incentives for teachers to train and qualify in these areas of shortfall. At the same time many UK trained teachers are leaving the U.K. to work abroad.
It may be just me, but I do feel that there must be a reason why this is happening, and begs the question why?
(Just a thought!)

SALTY69

I worked for the local Authority for 27 years my pension i will be picking up next year will be £6500 pa. with a lump some of £20000. This is what many people call a massive pension is it. Cut the BS and get the real story i am in the private sector now and have also paid into a pension with my employer who puts in 3% as did my Local authority. We all pay in to our pensions and i mean £250 a month so please get facts out there.

bigjl

There is nothing wrong with the word immigrant, it is purely a term for those going from one country to another.

Public services are a balancing act, if there is too large a population shift then the area with the infux of people will have services that are not properly financed.

If the Politicians would just admit they have made huge mistakes in estimating the population growth in recent years then they could increase the actual budgets they need to increase, not try and force a reduction in pension benefits for the only sector of the UK population that actually has to deal with these extra people without the resources to do so.

To try and divert the public and any discussion about these very basic concepts by crying "racist" is not helping the situation.

Especially when several of the groups coming to the UK in droves are white.

I agree with you Toshy, there are indeed a very high number of very good public sector workers leaving both the Cities and also the UK.

The country is in trouble, the loony left wish to hide behind inferences of racism whenever the word immigration is mentioned, but sadly they are the ones mentioning race, not anybody else.

It would be silly to say that racism or discrimination doesn't exist, but to bring it into every discussion of immigration is both irresonsible and only diverts the discussion from the point being discussed.

Which was, Public Sector Pensions, the point I have made is that everybody is quick to point the finger at where the money has gone.

It most certainly hasn't all gone to public sector pensions, but to ignore the more current drains on the public purse and stopping any debate of the situation with shouts of racism is silly.

toshy

SALTY69 wrote: »

I worked for the local Authority for 27 years my pension i will be picking up next year will be £6500 pa. with a lump some of £20000. This is what many people call a massive pension is it. Cut the BS and get the real story i am in the private sector now and have also paid into a pension with my employer who puts in 3% as did my Local authority. We all pay in to our pensions and i mean £250 a month so please get facts out there.

I'm anticipating you'll get some flack over the lump sum judging by previous comments, but the annual pension does go to show that our final pension scheme does not automatically mean we rake it in!
Let's not forget that many public sector pension schemes automatically force an opt out from SERPS and if we get any tax allowance on our payments then mine definitely was not shown in my Tax Code, but maybe we get tax allowance some other way, does any-one know???
We do get some kind of guaranteed pension but the value of this when compared to salary v qualifications and the work we do is not unreasonable, plus the way things are going even the final value now cannot be guaranteed. The AVC's which I have recently purchased give a much better return plus I get tax relief on them.

toshy

bigjl wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with the word immigrant, it is purely a term for those going from one country to another.

Public services are a balancing act, if there is too large a population shift then the area with the infux of people will have services that are not properly financed.

If the Politicians would just admit they have made huge mistakes in estimating the population growth in recent years then they could increase the actual budgets they need to increase, not try and force a reduction in pension benefits for the only sector of the UK population that actually has to deal with these extra people without the resources to do so.

To try and divert the public and any discussion about these very basic concepts by crying "racist" is not helping the situation.

Especially when several of the groups coming to the UK in droves are white.

I agree with you Toshy, there are indeed a very high number of very good public sector workers leaving both the Cities and also the UK.

The country is in trouble, the loony left wish to hide behind inferences of racism whenever the word immigration is mentioned, but sadly they are the ones mentioning race, not anybody else.

It would be silly to say that racism or discrimination doesn't exist, but to bring it into every discussion of immigration is both irresonsible and only diverts the discussion from the point being discussed.

Which was, Public Sector Pensions, the point I have made is that everybody is quick to point the finger at where the money has gone.

It most certainly hasn't all gone to public sector pensions, but to ignore the more current drains on the public purse and stopping any debate of the situation with shouts of racism is silly.

I agree! More money is mis-manged elsewhere in the public sector than in public sector pensions.

jem16

toshy wrote: »

if we get any tax allowance on our payments then mine definitely was not shown in my Tax Code, but maybe we get tax allowance some other way, does any-one know???

Public sector pension contributions are paid from gross salary before you are taxed - this means that you get automatic tax relief as your tax is then calculated on the lower amount. There is no need to change the tax code.

The AVC's which I have recently purchased give a much better return plus I get tax relief on them.

I think you will find when the time comes, that your final salary pension will give you a far greater return per pound contributed than your AVC ever will.

dunstonh

I worked for the local Authority for 27 years my pension i will be picking up next year will be £6500 pa. with a lump some of £20000. This is what many people call a massive pension is it. Cut the BS and get the real story i am in the private sector now and have also paid into a pension with my employer who puts in 3% as did my Local authority. We all pay in to our pensions and i mean £250 a month so please get facts out there.

toshy is right. You are going to get some flack on that. It clearly shows that you do not understand the issues.

you paid a very small monthly amount over those 27 years and you have got an amount in pension and lump sum that should someone in the private sector wanted, would have cost them about 5 times more per month.

The fact you think its small is because you only paid into it for 27 years. If you worked out what you paid for that benefit, it would be tiny compared to the rather poor 3% matched contribution you have now.