Public sector wellcome to the real world

cvd

That is not that surprising, as I believe around 47% of the country are employed by goverment

Q1, 2011

Public sector employment: 6.162 million (6.147 million if exclude temps used for Census)
Private sector employment: 23.077 million

nicknameless

I find the majority of this thread really disheartening reading, mainly because this pension debate seems to have succeeded in pitching worker against worker, with a crude private / public sector line in the sand, with the end result being that everyone is worse off at the end of it. If the more extreme assaults on the few remaining decent pension schemes, mainly in the public sector, do win the day, does that really benefit private sector workers with poor provision, or does it just mean that everyone is in the same (woodrotten) boat, whilst arguments that provision should be improved (not worsened) for all become more difficult to sustain. Equality will have been achieved. We'll all be equally poorly provided for in retirement.

What duties should employers in either the public or private sector have towards their workers? Should part of those duties be about the the long term welfare of a workforce? Is there an ethical or moral duty there? If so shouldn't we all be arguing that this is recognised by employers and corporations? If not why don't we just scrap all employer pension provision and let everyone fend for themselves? Should the duty solely be to profit and dividends or should there also be a responsibility to employees? If it's the former then why don't we just cut jobs, lower wages and massively increase the price of our products whilst cutting provision for our employees in retirement ..... just a minute isn't that just what's been happening, and what's being used as an excuse to do the same in the public sector??

Welcome to the real world - the one where we're all shafted in favour of the bottom line but no-one challenges it because we're all equal at least. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

cyclonebri1

bigjl wrote: »

A typical comment from somebody that is so unimformed as to think the economy is being ruined by the banks and the public sector pensions.

Where EXACTLY have I mentioned race, creed, colour or religion?

Nowhere.

That fact that some immediatly assume that the mention of uncontrolled immigration is a race issue says an awful lot more about the person that is saying it. As they are the one that has brought in the race, colour or religion which may or may not be involved.

This forum is not a debating point for such things.

However if you wish to blame the public sector for the countries ills then consideration must be given to where the money is actually being spent.

You do realise that a very large percentage of the public sector is made up of skilled immigrants?

So does that make anybody attacking the public sector pensions doing so on racial or religous grounds?

I would say no.

But you feel free to think what you want.

The NHS for example would certainly be the same or similar size without the recent immigration.

Why?

Well simply because the NHS spending is sorted out partly by using data from the census forms of previous years, and indeed this year.

As a lot of migrants tend not to fill in these forms for one reason or another then this actually reduces public spending.

I take it this isn't difficult for the uniformed to understand.

Without the unexpected overuse the NHS for example would be better resourced and the service we all pay for would be as good as we expect it to be.

The NHS for example doesn't make the waiting lists. In the same way the council doesn't make the housing waiting list.


To try to twist this into a race tgread is a pathetic thing to try and do to try to avoid looking at the real reason for the countries economic position.

This is without considering the amount of money that is sent out of the country every day via Western Union or similar, this also has a negative knock on effect to the economy.

I have first hand experience with that as my wife regularly sends money home to her mum and various cousins etc.

Nice to see the loony left is alive and well.

Ever wondered why so many NHS and Social Services staff move to Canade, New Zealand and Australia?

Do you really need me to answer that.

I'm sorry big chap but you simply cannot post such stuff as, and I quote;"

How is is fair to expect a teacher to agree to T&C of employment, work for 30 yrs and looking forward to retirement in 10 yrs. Only to be told that uncapped immigration and the benefit claiming career underclass are costing far too much money so they have to pay more for their pensions and work longer to allow the government to continue to pay for the benefit underclass and all the Eastern European children living abroad that are now entitled to child benefit due to one or both of their parents working for a period of time in the UK. Maybe they have gone home but are still claiming benefits of one fomr or another, job seekers for example.



,,, without attracting comments of a racial nature, you really should know better as a proud public servent.

This topioc has exposed in a really different light to that I perceived you to be in, so bitter, so sad

bigjl

The truth shall set you free.

I am not that bothered about immigration in all honesty.

The wife is an immigrant most of my extended family are immigrants.

If you look at from some perpectives I am an immigrant.

The issue is only uncontrolled immigration. The kind that isn't fed into the equation when the public sector budgets and performance expectations are sorted out.

You bri are only showing your ignorance. Which is to be expected these days.

New Labour has drilled it into people that to question immigration is purely a race issue.

It isn't especially when one of the largest groups of unskilled workers are white from Eastern Europe.

However if you think about then it should be obvious that things need to change.

You are believing the rubbish spouted by the redtop papers and the political elite.

Oh, he mentioned immigration he is an embittered national front supporter.

That is a very blinkered viewpoint.

The simpme fact is unless the public services are funded properly then this country is in trouble. The Police budgets are too small as they are using innaccurate figures in Westminster.

The politicians have no idea how many people are in the country that is the issue. Blindly believing with the census figures. Great, after all if you have sneaked in illegally or over stayed your visitors visa you are going to fill in the census form aren't you! Not!

You don't even know where I am coming from, but like most people who know little, throw out the race card, it is what the redtops say to do isn't it?

But then you have never had to blue a five yr old into resus knowing that delays in you getting to scene caused purely by too much demand, knowing full well that the delay has almost certainly meant the child won't survive. Have you?
No, you haven't.

Would you be surprised where I worked about 10% of our patients "white british".

So why am I bothered if according to you I have a racist agenda.

I'll make sure I tell the wife, she has obviously missed this fact over the last 15 yrs.

Maybe you would know more if you hadn't spent your life in a factory, eh.

cyclonebri1

bigjl wrote: »

The truth shall set you free.

I am not that bothered about immigration in all honesty.

The wife is an immigrant most of my extended family are immigrants.

If you look at from some perpectives I am an immigrant.

The issue is only uncontrolled immigration. The kind that isn't fed into the equation when the public sector budgets and performance expectations are sorted out.

You bri are only showing your ignorance. Which is to be expected these days.

New Labour has drilled it into people that to question immigration is purely a race issue.

It isn't especially when one of the largest groups of unskilled workers are white from Eastern Europe.

However if you think about then it should be obvious that things need to change.

You are believing the rubbish spouted by the redtop papers and the political elite.

Oh, he mentioned immigration he is an embittered national front supporter.

That is a very blinkered viewpoint.

The simpme fact is unless the public services are funded properly then this country is in trouble. The Police budgets are too small as they are using innaccurate figures in Westminster.

The politicians have no idea how many people are in the country that is the issue. Blindly believing with the census figures. Great, after all if you have sneaked in illegally or over stayed your visitors visa you are going to fill in the census form aren't you! Not!

You don't even know where I am coming from, but like most people who know little, throw out the race card, it is what the redtops say to do isn't it?

But then you have never had to blue a five yr old into resus knowing that delays in you getting to scene caused purely by too much demand, knowing full well that the delay has almost certainly meant the child won't survive. Have you?
No, you haven't.

Would you be surprised where I worked about 10% of our patients "white british".

So why am I bothered if according to you I have a racist agenda.

I'll make sure I tell the wife, she has obviously missed this fact over the last 15 yrs.

Maybe you would know more if you hadn't spent your life in a factory, eh.

Well I assume this is aimed at me so:

You still haven't accounted for deleting your racist comments, don't worry fella, if I'd said that I would be embarressed too.

Spent all my life in a factory?? where did you get that from, I spent all my life in industry and latter at a high level. the pension differences still applied.

I have to reiterate my post, can't remember the No, #132 maybe?


"This thread has touched a nerve with bigJ

I don't understand his reactions at all?????"

bigjl

What racist comment did i remove then?

You have lost me there.

The comment about a factory was in relation to when, at least i think it was you, that worked for 38 yrs in Engineering.

If it wasn't you I apologise but that was what the comment was referring to.

cyclonebri1

bigjl wrote: »

What racist comment did i remove then?

You have lost me there.

The comment about a factory was in relation to when, at least i think it was you, that worked for 38 yrs in Engineering.

If it wasn't you I apologise but that was what the comment was referring to.

Thank goodness for that.

For someone that works a 100 hrs a week overtime, you spend an awful lot of time on this forum.

bigjl

As far as removing any so called racist comments, what a load of twaddle.

You started talking about race bri.

Take a look at my Post that you say I have edited.

Just so you know it is No 508.

You will note that the post has not been edited in anyway.

So, erm, what is it that you imagine I have said.

You were the first to mention race fella.

I mentioned, among other things, uncontrolled immigration. You mentioned race, which means that in your mind immigration and race is the same issue.

It isn't in my mind, but good luck with what ever you think.

cyclonebri1

bigjl wrote: »

What racist comment did i remove then?

You have lost me there.

The comment about a factory was in relation to when, at least i think it was you, that worked for 38 yrs in Engineering.

If it wasn't you I apologise but that was what the comment was referring to.

Yes exactly it was me, finished my employment as the company Chief Engineer, not exactly a "factory worker".

That's your term, "factory worker" and goes along way towards explaining how you see the private sector worker.

I have to say yet again you have shamed yourself in this thread in at least my view. You have posted steriotypical comments against all factions outside the NHS.

I'm done.

bigjl

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Thank goodness for that.

For someone that works a 100 hrs a week overtime, you spend an awful lot of time on this forum.

Whatever, you really dopn't reads anything properly, that is why you end up getting the wrong end of the stick all the time.

Start by reading things properly, then reread if you don't understand something.

All the information is there.

All contained in various posts on the forum, so run along and read my posts properly then you will actually have some idea what you are talking about.

Your just making yourself look silly now.

The problem with making smart comments, is that you need to have read and understood the whole of story, otherwise you end up with eg on your face like you have.