Public sector wellcome to the real world

atush

This discussion is fuelled by one ingredient - ENVY

Not really. I don't envy you your pension, or the double dippers I know personally. You made your choice and are reaping the benefits, good for you. And thanks for the service you gave (if you were one of the good ones and not the lazy jobsworths).

But as you luxuriate in the knowledge you mde the right decision (and I still rec anyone entitled to join a PS pension should do so) the plain facts are that they cannot go on in their current form for new and existing PS workers. It cannot be afforded esp as there will be fewer and fewer new workers paying tax to support more and more retired baby boomers.

The only people I begrudge their pensions are those that are overpaid (like RBS former executives who ruined their bank) and MPs and Union Leaders and part time Council CEOs who get far more than they are worth. To the rest of the PS, I say enjoy what you have now but we can't afford for more of you to enjoy it later.

I think i'll just go back to the threads where NHS and other PS emplyees in their 20s ask if they should join the pension schemes ;-)

Uglymug

I’ve read through and digested the various posts in this thread with a great deal of interest and given it all a great deal of thought. I've now been on this thread long enough and am starting to see things as in the "Public Sector" world.

I’ve noted that the militant, Union worshiping, wrapped in cotton wool, believe in the Easter Bunny, posters tend to attribute the current financial crisis to the greedy bankers. Yet, these militants, through their own excessive greed, do not seem to care that the next financial crisis could very well be attributed to them. The bank bail out cost will be minimal compared to the escalating, ever increasing cost of the public sector pensions.

If the initial financial crisis was due to the “Bank Bailout” the next, second one could very well be due to the “Public Sector Unfunded Pension Spent” (PS-UPS for short) and this could be very much more severe.

Luckily we now have a government with the foresight to see the second crisis is coming, and with their courage, determination and resolve will ensure it does not occur. It’s truly a shame that the previous government was not as competent in spotting the initial crisis.

The employees of the banking sector were, and possibly still are, grossly vilified by the public for having caused the initial crisis (I even recall bricks thrown through windows). By their very actions the Government will have saved the employees of the Public Sector this kind of vilification - they should be extremely grateful for this. Due to the greater costs involved, the second crisis would have ended up being much worse, it could easily have resulted in very serious friction between the resultant mega rich public sector pensioners and the other less fortunate destitute ones.

In future years the moderate employees of the Public Sector will come to realise what this current Government has done for them and they’ll gain their support in droves.

By ensuring the employees of the Public Sector are not vilified by the general public in this manner this will go down in history as the best thing any Government has ever done for the employees of the Public Sector.

I ‘m sure that everyone, once they’ve thought this through, will agree with me and that our current Government deserves a hell of a lot of credit for their actions. It’s a job really well done - everyone’s a winner.

Finally, it seems pretty obvious the only reason Red Ed is not on the picket lines as any other self respecting opposition Labour leader would have been is because he’s been informed of all this. He’s now manoeuvring in typical Labour style to take some of the credit for all of this and for being the saviour of the public sector.

atush

I ‘m sure that everyone, once they’ve thought this through, will agree with me and that our current Government deserves a hell of a lot of credit for their actions. It’s a job really well done - everyone’s a winner

Well the IMF certainly agrees.

As to vilification, that will depend on what happens re strikes going forwards. Too many and there will be vilifications aplenty. And parents who were initially supportive of the NUT are having a rethink as the injuries (and even one death) from Thursday's day off school are tabulated- not even going to mention lost wages in times where there is no wiggle room for such.

Moby

Uglymug wrote: »

I’ve read through and digested the various posts in this thread with a great deal of interest and given it all a great deal of thought. I've now been on this thread long enough and am starting to see things as in the "Public Sector" world.

. Yet, these militants, through their own excessive greed, do not seem to care that the next financial crisis could very well be attributed to them. The bank bail out cost will be minimal compared to the escalating, ever increasing cost of the public sector pensions.

If the initial financial crisis was due to the “Bank Bailout” the next, second one could very well be due to the “Public Sector Unfunded Pension Spent” (PS-UPS for short) and this could be very much more severe.

Luckily we now have a government with the foresight to see the second crisis is coming, and with their courage, determination and resolve will ensure it does not occur. It’s truly a shame that the previous government was not as competent in spotting the initial crisis.

The employees of the banking sector were, and possibly still are, grossly vilified by the public for having caused the initial crisis (I even recall bricks thrown through windows). By their very actions the Government will have saved the employees of the Public Sector this kind of vilification - they should be extremely grateful for this. Due to the greater costs involved, the second crisis would have ended up being much worse, it could easily have resulted in very serious friction between the resultant mega rich public sector pensioners and the other less fortunate destitute ones.

In future years the moderate employees of the Public Sector will come to realise what this current Government has done for them and they’ll gain their support in droves.

By ensuring the employees of the Public Sector are not vilified by the general public in this manner this will go down in history as the best thing any Government has ever done for the employees of the Public Sector.

I ‘m sure that everyone, once they’ve thought this through, will agree with me and that our current Government deserves a hell of a lot of credit for their actions. It’s a job really well done - everyone’s a winner.

Finally, it seems pretty obvious the only reason Red Ed is not on the picket lines as any other self respecting opposition Labour leader would have been is because he’s been informed of all this. He’s now manoeuvring in typical Labour style to take some of the credit for all of this and for being the saviour of the public sector.

The return of the Daily Fail readership LOL. Are you for real!
'I've given this a great deal of thought' - that's a classic! This Government is doing what its doing not because of foresight but because of its belief in the unfettered market and competition. The very same things that led to this crash!

'I’ve noted that the militant, Union worshiping, wrapped in cotton wool, believe in the Easter Bunny, posters tend to attribute the current financial crisis to the greedy bankers'

Yes!....and remember this! some of us were not taken in by the Thatcher experiment of the 80's. I saw plumbers, builders, electricians etc earning far more than me and the friends I graduated with following their yuppie dream earned money and bonuses I could only dream of because I was working in the public sector. I've worked for 25 years as a Probation Officer in London, my partner has been a Social Worker for the same length of time. We certainly know what the real world is like thank you!. Everyday I deal with some of the worst criminals you could imagine and my wife tries to protect children from abuse.....yet we couldn't afford to raise children ourselves because we live in London on low salaries.....instead we concentrated on paying off our mortgage and topping up our pensions. We can now look forward to a comfortable retirement...health allowing of course! its not our fault other peoples investments went bad!

Everything I earn gets taxed at source. No cash in hand backhanders for me! There is a huge black economy in this country. Many of the people I supervise on probation are driving mercs or BMW's. As for the bankers....I have no problem with the public face of the high street banks but the merchant types are corrupt as hell and have still been receiving bonuses from taxpayers bailout money......and while we are talking about taxpayers money the people that benefit most from tax relief are the high earners! proportionately they gain far more than the average Joe from tax relief. Public service pensions are an easy and undeserved target!

cyclonebri1

Moby wrote: »

The return of the Daily Fail readership LOL. Are you for real!
'I've given this a great deal of thought' - that's a classic! This Government is doing what its doing not because of foresight but because of its belief in the unfettered market and competition. The very same things that led to this crash!

'I’ve noted that the militant, Union worshiping, wrapped in cotton wool, believe in the Easter Bunny, posters tend to attribute the current financial crisis to the greedy bankers'

Yes!....and remember this! some of us were not taken in by the Thatcher experiment of the 80's. I saw plumbers, builders, electricians etc earning far more than me and the friends I graduated with following their yuppie dream earned money and bonuses I could only dream of because I was working in the public sector. I've worked for 25 years as a Probation Officer in London, my partner has been a Social Worker for the same length of time. We certainly know what the real world is like thank you!. Everyday I deal with some of the worst criminals you could imagine and my wife tries to protect children from abuse.....yet we couldn't afford to raise children ourselves because we live in London on low salaries.....instead we concentrated on paying off our mortgage and topping up our pensions. We can now look forward to a comfortable retirement...health allowing of course! its not our fault other peoples investments went bad!

Everything I earn gets taxed at source. No cash in hand backhanders for me! There is a huge black economy in this country. Many of the people I supervise on probation are driving mercs or BMW's. As for the bankers....I have no problem with the public face of the high street banks but the merchant types are corrupt as hell and have still been receiving bonuses from taxpayers bailout money......and while we are talking about taxpayers money the people that benefit most from tax relief are the high earners! proportionately they gain far more than the average Joe from tax relief. Public service pensions are an easy and undeserved target!

in true Trig fashion;

"So what you saying then Delboy?"

toshy

All of those slagging off the public sector workers who are defending their working conditions really make me mad! I’m betting my bottom dollar that they also are the same people who would be first to complain if the public services which they rely on were reduced or less effective.
I’d respectfully suggest they look at some pure facts.
I am a member of the largest union UNISON who represent some of the lowest paid workers in the public sector, many working on or around the minimum wage level. To date UNISON have not chosen to ballot their members on strike action, however the progress on the talks has not been very encouraging, so this remains a possibility.
I would also like to point out that in 2008 public sector workers underwent a pension review in which contributions and retirement age rose, whilst benefits were reduced. The previous lump sum retirement payment was axed and the option to reduce monthly pension in order to have a lump sum replaced this.The Unions accepted this deal without strike action because they accepted the financial implications of the scheme where pensioners were living longer. We were assured that this scheme was viable. This begs the question why only 3 years later it has become necessary to review it again.
I have worked in the public sector all my life, both in the NHS and education sectors. I chose to do this rather than work in the private sector, where my salary would have been between 2-3 times higher, because I wanted to make a valuable contribution to society. I would like to remind all private sector grouchers, that they too could have made, and still can make this choice. A lower salary with better retirement benefits or a higher salary with lower retirement benefits…it’s simply swings and roundabouts isn’t it?
When I first started in the public sector (in 1968) it was mandatory to pay into the government superannuation scheme. The money we paid plus our employers contribution was (we were told) to be invested to accrue interest which would meet the cost of our pensions.
By the time I retire my personal contribution to the scheme will amount to over £81,900.00. My annual pension when I retire at 65 is currently projected to be £7,200 and I am lucky that as I had paid into the scheme prior to 2008 I will still receive a lump sum of £10,385. So let’s do some maths!!! By my reckoning the money I have paid in will meet my lump sum and fully meet my annual pension for over 11 years, i.e. until I am 76 yrs old, EVEN if there is no interest accrued on it from the investment, and WITHOUT needing to draw on any of the contributions made by my employers (the government). I would like to question how the investment of the money paid in by the millions of public sector workers, plus the employers contributions has been handled, before accepting the need for any further cuts to our pension benefits.

toshy

The_White_Horse wrote: »

i think, having read this thread, that we can all agree that the public sector workers are greedy grasping filth who have no idea how anything works - having never created anything in their miserable insulated lives. they have no idea what the value of money is. they are the lowest of the low. they should all have a 30% pay cut across the board and be forced to make larger pension contributions into defined contribution pensions. if they don't like it, they can work in the private sector. they would last all of 3 minutes. bunch of mardy jokers.

Yes we are all so greedy and mardy that we regularly work 3 hours a day unpaid overtime with a 10 minute lunch break for the princely take home sum of £900 a month, oh! and let's not forget when we wallow in our 24 days leave a year, just to ensure that the sweet little darlings who turn up to school with knives and tell us to f**k off or they'll sue us, can gain a C grade in their GCSE and then promply sign on the dole. I'm betting you are one of the parents who argue when we arrange the only punishment open to us, an after school detention, because "my child would never do that" Thank goodness for CCTV lol! Get real or even better, try doing my job and see.

cyclonebri1

toshy wrote: »

Yes we are all so greedy and mardy that we regularly work 3 hours a day unpaid overtime with a 10 minute lunch break for the princely take home sum of £900 a month, oh! and let's not forget when we wallow in our 24 days leave a year, just to ensure that the sweet little darlings who turn up to school with knives and tell us to f**k off or they'll sue us, can gain a C grade in their GCSE and then promply sign on the dole. I'm betting you are one of the parents who argue when we arrange the only punishment open to us, an after school detention, because "my child would never do that" Thank goodness for CCTV lol! Get real or even better, try doing my job and see.

:T:TGot that bit right then?

Look thisd has all gone the way the op intended in post #1, ie, us against them or vickyverca.

I suggest the topic is closed with a big NAH NAN AN ANNAH NA from all sides, it is deceased, it iS a DEAD PARROT

toshy

toshy wrote: »

Yes we are all so greedy and mardy that we regularly work 3 hours a day unpaid overtime with a 10 minute lunch break for the princely take home sum of £900 a month, oh! and let's not forget when we wallow in our 24 days leave a year, just to ensure that the sweet little darlings who turn up to school with knives and tell us to f**k off or they'll sue us, can gain a C grade in their GCSE and then promply sign on the dole. I'm betting you are one of the parents who argue when we arrange the only punishment open to us, an after school detention, because "my child would never do that" Thank goodness for CCTV lol! Get real or even better, try doing my job and see.

I am not a teacher by the way, but one of the many support staff working in schools who do the tasks which the teaching unions negotiated a few years ago as not being the duty of the teacher.
I have an MA, IOSH and NVQ assessor qualifications and I'm classed as middle management, shame the salary does not reflect my ability, but hey ho! it's public sector after all!

toshy

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

:T:TGot that bit right then?

Look thisd has all gone the way the op intended in post #1, ie, us against them or vickyverca.

I suggest the topic is closed with a big NAH NAN AN ANNAH NA from all sides, it is deceased, it iS a DEAD PARROT

So are you a Lumberjack as well??