Information and help about handicapped Uncle's ISA.

Thellwell

Hello I am new to the forum so please be gentle with me!!!

I am looking for some information. My Uncle has severe learning difficulties. He lives in his own house and has a social worker visit him weekley. As I have lived in Ireland for the past ten years I thought he was getting along fine with no problems untill I moved back to the UK. I went to visit him a couple of weeks ago and his finances were a mess. He was overdrawn on his current account and also had a number of different accounts which the social workers had opened for him. He has no idea how to access these accounts and any money taken out is done so by the social workers. He also has two ISA's with quite a lot of money in them. I spoke to the social worker to try and fin out what was going on. She told me that it was hard for her to keep up with him as he had so many social workers visit him and she wasn't the sole one ( which I didn't know about).

To cut a long story short I'm not comfortable with the amount of money my Uncle has and the very many different social workers who are able to access his account. What I'm wondering is, is there any way that he could close one of his ISA's and transfer it to my account and also that I can set up internet banking on his behalf so I can look after his money and pay into his current account when he needs it? I would also like to transfer the interest every couple of months. Fundimentaly it will still be his money I just know that it will be safe and managed correctly.
Any help would be appreciated.

Reaper

If you take it out of his ISA it will lose it's tax free status. Also if you transfer it to you it will be taxed as yours, which would make a difference if you are on different tax rates.

How about closing all the accounts the social workers have access to and setting up 1 account in your own name from which you pay the social workers whatever they need?

Leave the ISAs where they are (if he is a tax payer) but check what rate it is paying. Unless you move it every year you may well find it is on a dire rate like 0.1% by now. However you might want to get your uncle to take enough out to clear the overdraft.

I don't know to what extent he is able to look after his own finances but you do of course need to make sure he is happy with the idea of gifting money to you to look after on his behalf.

Alternatively you can keep it in his name and get power of attorney to operate his accounts for him.

But before you do any drastic steps consider just getting his existing finances straight and letting him handle them himself with occasional reviews from you.

Thellwell

Hi Reaper thanks for the reply. I have sorted out clearing the overdraft and was fuming that the social workers hadn't spotted it and had let his account get out of hand. His ISA hasn't been moved since it was opened so will have to check this. He is happy to gift me the money to look after on his behalf. I explained everything to him the other day and he trusts me 100%. I am really the only family he has other than my Dad who never sees him. He has no idea how to handle his accounts and so this is why I very much want to step in and have some control. As far as I know he doesn't pay any tax as he can't work due to his disability but I will check this out.
It's just a bot of a mess and I don't tryst those social workers as far as I can throw them! They seem to do as little as possible and expect my Uncle to pick up the pieces. The power of attorny sounds like a good idea. I'm going in to his bank with him tommorrow so will also ask them for some advice.

RobStaffs

Thellwell wrote: »

Hi Reaper thanks for the reply. I have sorted out clearing the overdraft and was fuming that the social workers hadn't spotted it and had let his account get out of hand. His ISA hasn't been moved since it was opened so will have to check this. He is happy to gift me the money to look after on his behalf. I explained everything to him the other day and he trusts me 100%. I am really the only family he has other than my Dad who never sees him. He has no idea how to handle his accounts and so this is why I very much want to step in and have some control. As far as I know he doesn't pay any tax as he can't work due to his disability but I will check this out.
It's just a bot of a mess and I don't tryst those social workers as far as I can throw them! They seem to do as little as possible and expect my Uncle to pick up the pieces. The power of attorny sounds like a good idea. I'm going in to his bank with him tommorrow so will also ask them for some advice.

You can be granted Power of Attorney over his financial affairs but you have to be his primary carer as the previous poster stated.

Reaper

Thellwell wrote: »

As far as I know he doesn't pay any tax as he can't work due to his disability but I will check this out

If so an ISA is fairly pointless (if you mean cash ISA), just go for a normal savings account and ask the interest to be paid without income tax being deducted. You just have to fill in a form which the bank will give you. It gives you a lot more choice that way. It will have to be in his name not yours though as he is the non-tax payer.

Jake'sGran

I was going to make the point about your Uncle possibly not needing ISAs but can see that this has been covered.

I was unaware that to be granted Power of Attorney a person has to be the primary carer of the person needing help with their financial affairs. My husband is my primary carer but in the event of my needing someone to look after my affairs it would be my daughter as my husband would not have a clue. Perhaps RobStaffs could comment on this for me.

Finally, how is it possible for social workers to take money from the Uncle's accounts? If it is allowed by law in the case of a person with severe learning difficulties does anyone ever check that withdrawals are legitimate?

The best conclusion would be for the poster to become her Uncle's Power of Attorney.

greenface

someone needs to be able to withdraw money for him if he is not able to do so . I think a social worker with his best interests is as good as any inc. family. As op has said he has had no family around for some time. All funds need to be able and transparently accessed by people with his best interests and it may be more benificial to work with the social care team than try to do it all yourself. On another note be careful on how much savings he has as this will affect his benefits and could then have a knock on effect to the care he is now receiving. My DS has a careworker in the college he attends that has full access to a bank account . we put in x amount (by DD)for anything he needs per week and it is taken out his end by his carer.

Loughton_Monkey

Power of attorney can be granted to anyone (within reason). Nothing to do with being a carer. The only 'issue' would be whether or not - with his learning difficulties - he is deemed 'competent' to sign it. You need legal advice on this.

Personally, I would not be comfortable putting such money in my own name. Not only can it raise tax difficulties (especially if he is not a tax payer, and you are), but the motives for doing it can always be questioned [albeit that your intentions are 100% honest].

I am currently in a similar situation with a family member. A POA is being sought, but this is a slow process. Meanwhile, I found it quite easy to open Internet accounts on my relative's behalf. He has full access to his current account and credit card. The latter is automatically paid off by DD from the former. So all his assets are 'secure' [only I can access the bulk of it] and in his name. Plus they are earning optimum interest.

Even this strategy is, I am sure, a little bit 'unethical', in that the banks concerned are unaware that it is myself actually doing the keystrokes and managing the accounts. But not (as I understand it) illegal. But I stick to the principal that everything is in his name and that I can (and do) produce accounts. I don't actually 'spend' anything on his behalf. Just move the money around.

In this way, I can 'oversee' everything that is happening and would notice anything 'funny'.

McKneff

Lump his Isas into one only, dont transfer the money into your account, I presume you would be doing this with the best of intentions but you have to be seen to be scrupuously clean when yu act as pow.

Well done for taking care of him.

alanq

Holding Uncle's money in an account in your name has problems

You will not be seen to be holding and using funds only for Uncle's benefit.
You will be paying the tax perhaps at a higher rate.
If you marry and divorce the funds would be considered yours and a share could be claimed by your ex-spouse.
If you die the funds will be part of your estate.
If you need means tested benefits the funds would be considered as yours.
The transfer could be regarded as deprivation of assets and funds would still be considered as Uncle's if he is receiving means tested benefits.
etc. etc.

If Uncle has severe learning difficulties it sounds as if he is not capable of running his own affairs. If that is the case then unless Uncle appointed Attorneys while mentally competent or the Court Of Protection has appointed Deputies on his behalf no one else should be running his affairs. If someone else has been granted such authority by the CoP then you would have to contact the Court to challenge the current arrangements.

If is considered competent to run his own affairs then hopefully that means he is competent apply to appoint you as an attorney.

oramgepekoe

Has your uncle got an up-to-date will?