What electrical regulations?

George_Bray

Does anyone know where I can find chapter and verse on the rules/procedures one is supposed to follow, for example, when fitting new light switches and power sockets? It might say sockets should be at least X inches off the ground, or something like that. I know the summary-level guideline to "use a contactor" ( and have checked this wretched Government's odpm website, but to little avail.

Regards
George

YorkshireBoy

George_Bray wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find chapter and verse on the rules/procedures one is supposed to follow...

The blunt answer is to undertake a 4 year apprenticeship, followed by many years of experience, and undertake various courses to update knowledge and encompass new legislation (eg Electricity at Work Act, Part P, 16th Edition (including amendments as introduced), 17th Edition (when it comes - and it will!!!), etc).

The "slightly" easier route is to buy yourself a copy of the 16th Edition Wiring Regulations (BS7671), and a full set of the associated on-site guides. Have a read through all this and then get yourself enrolled on the current 16th Edition training course (C & G exam) at your local technical college. Should cost no more than £400 or so.

HTH
YB

George_Bray

Yorkshire Boy

Thank you for the book titles. I'll see if the library have them and make some notes on the very few pages which I deem relevant to me.

I can understand gas being quite tightly controlled, but banning DIY electrical work should be prevented by Human rights legislation. A year ago it might have cost £5 materials, and an hour of two's DIY work, to install a new power socket in the lounge or kitchen. Now it would cost well over £100, I would guess - and perhaps rather more - whether you go the 'contactor' or 'Council inspection' route.

Blow that for a game of soldiers. Back to the future. It's a good job I finished all the electrical work I will ever do, two years ago.

Regards
George

YorkshireBoy

George_Bray wrote:

I can understand gas being quite tightly controlled, but banning DIY electrical work should be prevented by Human rights legislation.

(YB puts on his electrical engineers hat)

Everyone can understand gas being dangerous, but not electricity - why?

They both kill
They both burn your house down (OK, gas does it far more spectacularly!)
They both cost you all your possessions and memories

With gas you have a chance - you can smell it when its there (exception is CO). With electricity, the only sense you have is touch, and by then its too late!

(YB gets off his soapbox)

George_Bray

YorkshireBoy wrote:

Everyone can understand gas being dangerous, but both kill)

I view myself as a reasonably competent person to work on circuits in my house. I know what I don't know. I know I am fully capable of work which is completed to a higher standard than the original (modern) house build. I don't need electrical qualifications, and to pay costly professional membership fees, to connect a 13 amp plug, a junction box or a new light switch. I also know enough about wires to select the right cable and protect it with shielding to a far higher standard than the builders, or even todays contractors, would.

As a (presumably) professionally qualified electrician you have to say what you do say. I know where you are coming from. But I am so angry that these new rules apply to me and millions of other competent DIYers who know at least as much as I do, and probably work to an even higher standard. This is not rocket science. The inspection fees and/or 'premium' for a professional are huge and unjust.

Regards
George

Galtizz

I can see what you are saying George and it is extremely frustrating that compentent DIYers now have to pay a small fortune for cheap electrical work.

However, I recently moved into a house which was re-wired by someone who considered himself to be competent at electrics (he told me he was very proud of the job he had done). He wasn't. I had live wires sticking out of the wall in the bathroom and other problems with his work that meant the house has had to be re-wired and re plumbed (he thought he could tackle gas too). It is scary how people with absolutly no training (who would probably not wire a plug properly) think they are capable of doing something like a re-wire.

It is a shame that people like you (who obviously are capable) can't do a 'Competant DIYers course' which would enable them to do some simple things like the ones you mentioned. The only problem with the new regulations is that there is no way to enforse it. It stops the honest people but the scumbags (like the guy I bought my house off) will still continue to think they are above the law. When they come to sell there house they will just say the electrics were done before the new laws came in.

dougk_2

And people wonder why house prices are higher in the uK..... by the time you add on the cost of all the work that needs to be done that you can't do yourself its not a surprise!

This is partly why property is a lot cheaper in other countries (that and the fact that the properties here are governed by many other building regulations, planning rules etc!)

Soon we won't be able to fit our own carpets (in case we cut ourselves with a knife).....When is the government bringing in the legislation to stop us working on our own cars or changing a flat tyre? In my view thats far more of a risk!

George_Bray

Galtizz wrote:

...I recently moved into a house which was re-wired by someone who considered himself to be competent at electrics (he told me he was very proud of the job he had done). He wasn't. I had live wires sticking out of the wall in the bathroom and other problems with his work that meant the house has had to be re-wired and re plumbed (he thought he could tackle gas too).

I’m sorry to hear how you were cheated. If regulations were worth anything, it should be very straightforward to get the previous owner to foot the bill. Have you tried? I also agree it’s impossible to assess skills and capability without costly exams, tests or whatever. Everyone thinks they are a good driver!

My safe (I trust) ‘money saving’ shortcuts might be the next owner’s nightmare, e.g. I want to run a spur off an existing circuit, as allowed by regulations. I should (I understand) go and buy a switch with an inbuilt fuse. These cost about £10 at B&Q. Or £25 + labour + call out charge + VAT from an electrician. It will be hidden, although accessible, so appearance doesn’t matter. Just safety and being up to the job. Now, I have a lot of spare, high quality M&K 13 amp 3-pin wall sockets (with a switch) and 13 amp fused plugs, like we all use. So I would like to use those two parts together, instead of a new £10 fused switch. There is no danger or risk whatsoever as far as I can tell, but it’s an ‘unconventional’ approach. I expect a building inspector would reject the approach because it says a fused switch in the regulations. I see an advantage in my approach in that the spur circuit can be completely and rapidly isolated in the unlikely event of an emergency. But would the inspector see it like that? You couldn’t afford to take the chance because a re-inspection presumably costs a further £100.

I view it as pure and simple overhead - £100s added to - the already high and very poor value Council Tax. Then there’s waste fees for disposing of old kitchen cabinets, etc. whereas you used to be able to just take them down the tip. And voluntary donations to schools for books, etc because state funding is inadequate. It makes me so angry, the way this country is going.

George_Bray

Further to my previous posting, I just read some very helpful comments by Yorkshire Boy on another thread about cookers. He said: "It's normal for the modern "built-under" ovens to come with relatively small cable flex and be plugged into 13A sockets"
That's what I want to do, but for a whole spur circuit, rather than a cooker!

"...or hard-wired into "fused connection units", mounted inside the adjacent cupboard." This is what I want to avoid to save £10!

"...The oven cable would then be permanently connected to this fused connection unit, rather than being plugged in to a socket....increased chance of overheating when plugs and sockets are used".
Oh dear, but my spur will have a 13 amp fuse fitted, and I'm even happy to use a 5 amp fuse, because I will never connect a high-current device like an electric cooker. Does that make it OK?

beefster

NO! Unless its an extension lead?
Apparently you can not feed a spur socket via a plug top but you can buy those 4 gang extension leads with wall mountings on them!
And the disserance is... Answers on a post card please!

Confused??????

beefster

For Disserance read differance!!!!!!!!!!