We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Public Sector Pensions - Are they really so bad?
Comments
-
I think what gets people's goats up with the public sector aren't those working in sectors which one would say are pretty worthwhile - education, health, police and the armed forces - but local authority workers who, IME (I've temped in a few) aren't perhaps the most efficient workforce around, but still receive a fairly generous pension.0
-
Regarding the pensions.
Isn't it the change to current T&C's which is being argued as wrong? Pensions for newcomers, at least in the NHS, and I believe civil service have changed.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »One council.
Does that apply to all councils to you?
Do you truly believe it is the norm for sparkies to be earning over 100k a year in the public sector?
You are relying on absolute extremes.
How do you know it was only Birmingham City Council? I just posted that example because I could remember reading about it in the past.
Don't make stupid sweeping statements like "no bonuses, ever" that you can't back up Graham..
How about the police - are they ordinary enough to you? Until very recently, they had this scheme in place (it's not just reported in the D Mail):
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1362363/Theresa-May--5k-bonuses-axed-police-officers-simply-doing-job.html#ixzz1PLQF5Ac6Bonuses of up to £5,000 a year paid to police officers simply for doing their job are to be axed.
Chief constables will ditch the controversial payments – one of which is known as ‘grab a grand’ – after the Government said forces should cut perks, not frontline staff.
There are two separate special payments which are received by 100,000 officers – more than two-thirds of all police. They cost an astonishing £180million a year.0 -
I think what gets people's goats up with the public sector aren't those working in sectors which one would say are pretty worthwhile - education, health, police and the armed forces - but local authority workers who, IME (I've temped in a few) aren't perhaps the most efficient workforce around, but still receive a fairly generous pension.
I'd completely agree. I actually pointed towards this with my post earlier, suggesting the chief exec will always get the bonuses and recognition as he's at the top.
Councillors are royally taking the pee. I don't think anyone, bar councillors, would deny that.
But that's the same right across the board. Banks...look at the pee taking there. They say it's all down to performance, same as councillors say the same. Banks threaten when people look at their ridiculous amounts of money....same with councillors.
It's a shame to castrate the whole public sector on the basis of the select few.
The majority of the public sector, teaching your kids now, Mary moping up your vomit now, putting their lives in danger now to protect you, running into burning buildings to protect you and your possesions, and everyone who makes the wheels turn, receptionists, admin, people making sure the fire engine starts and is serviced....they all work just as hard as Mary the shop assistant in Next, Barry, the kwik fit wheel fitter and Paul the Tesco shopfitter.
And no, mary moping up your vomit does not get a shed load more cash than Ted does mopping up the vomit in the tube train.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Banks...look at the pee taking there.
Funny how you point out the majority of the public sector do not get well paid, bonus etc. Yet go straight on to banks, where the vast amount of jobs are branch worker jobs not especially well paid..
PS councilors don't get paid or pensions. You are thinking of directors/Chief Exec's.;)0 -
So on a like for like basis those jobs are worse paid than the public sector.
Does that not go against the argument?
No because I haven't used that argument others may have done.
The reason to outsource is to push the overall cost down at delivery.
The long term cost of ownership/provison will go up which ever route is chosen.
Public sector inefficiency just switches to private sector profit. It won't decrease the cost to us in the long term as we collectively will still pick up the problem at the end of the day.
When the bin person gets paid less and doesn't have a good pension route available to them then they will not be able to provide sufficiently and they will then need to be picked up by "benefit, state pension guarantee" at the end of the term.
the only real way to take over head cost out which becomes more and more marginal or stop collecting the bins.
The short term saving maybe there and that is all Chief Exec at the council is bothered about because he is incentivised now not for the impact in 20/30 years time."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Funny how you point out the majority of the public sector do not get well paid, bonus etc. Yet go straight on to banks, where the vast amount of jobs are branch worker jobs not especially well paid..
Why is it funny?
It made my point. As soon as I say "banks" you want to make a point that some people are not paid like those at the top are.
Yet it's ok to have a go at the entire public sector and everyone within it.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Public sector inefficiency just switches to private sector profit. It won't decrease the cost to us in the long term as we collectively will still pick up the problem at the end of the day.
Not sure how you work out someone who costs the tax payer more to employ and costs more to support their pension will work out costing tax payers the same as someone on a lower wage with no pension other than the state one.
AFAIK they will both receive a state pension.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »Regarding the pensions.
Isn't it the change to current T&C's which is being argued as wrong? Pensions for newcomers, at least in the NHS, and I believe civil service have changed.
And existing NHS pensions are well into being reformed to, just in time for the next reform before the next U Turn.:rotfl:
Edit:- and who pays for all the badly planned and implemented reforms?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
What's amazing to me, is that the public sector is so easy to work in, so easy to get better pay in, and so easy to get greater benefits.
Yet the people saying it, choose to work in the private sector.
Bizzare.
This argument will go on for a good while yet, and no one will change their views, or even allow for a level discussion. It's all extremes.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.1K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.2K Spending & Discounts
- 245.2K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.5K Life & Family
- 259K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards