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Public Sector Pensions - Are they really so bad?
Comments
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worldtraveller wrote: »
As for your collegue getting the costs of travel between work and home reimbursed, that would almost certainly be taxed as a benefit.
Ah it depends from my experience that would only be to his permanent place of work (which shouldn't really be expenses as such more a BIK).
If contracting then his home may be his permanent place of work, traveling into the office would be normal business expense as would traveling between offices.
What does annoy me is that in the privates sector their is usually a taxable cap on mileage rates which the public sector don't apply. Especially my local Councillors, who could avail themselves of the wonderful public transport they promote."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
lemonjelly wrote: »Private sector wages are considerably more generous than public sector.
So where's the evidence of that sweeping generalisation?
Publicly available national statistics seem to indicate otherwise.0 -
A rough guide is that if someone in the private sector wishes to replicate the benefits of a typical public sector pension then it would cost them around 25% of their salary. The typical public sector contribution is around 5-7%. So, it is a massive benefit for the public sector
That is why it is seen as unfair and should be changed.
I accept the need for change but the private cost does need to pay for profits too, of all the distributed private providers. I would also suggest that it is skewed as high earners who will be expecting/chasing bigger returns to reflect their end salary aspirations.
In a number of big corporates they have also moved to bonus structures, as part of the remuneration package, making the base salary lower from which to accumulate benefit."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I work in the private sector in Croydon and nearby there's a public sector organisation that does similar work. They were only established within the last 10 years, and they have been rather aggressive in their staff acquisition tactics, to the extent that they pay far more than is "reasonable" for the job.
A few years ago one of my colleagues went over to work for them - when I was on ~£17k in the private sector, they were paid ~£30k when they switched to the public sector (and they reported to me, so would likely have been paid less than me in the private sector). I was very tempted to apply for it myself, but my lifelong dislike of government has kept me away so far...0 -
Old_Slaphead wrote: »So where's the evidence of that sweeping generalisation?
Publicly available national statistics seem to indicate otherwise.
The national statistics are quite flawed.
As has already been stated, you don't get police, teachers, MPs etc in the private sector.
And the public sector has outsourced most of the menial jobs, even down to bin collections, to the private sector.0 -
Hasn't the NHS pension scheme been running a surplus over the past few years?0
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I am a public sector employee but in a role that offers consultancy services to the private sector. I could easily earn £10-20k more in the private sector, but accept it may be more 'pressured'. The total amount paid into my pension between me and my employer is more than £500 per month, so its not like its not being paid for - are those in the private sector paying this amount into a pension? This is the only 'perk' i get - no bonuses, no car allowance or company car (even though I travel nationweide). We even have to pay for our own christmas events. We do get flexi time but this generally serves so we can work 12-14 hour days without getting paud extra for it - ie it is just as much a benefit to the employer
before the recession, we never had much response to vacancies as the pay is comparitivly poor so if the public sector is the gravy train everyone in the private sector thinks it is, why don't we have people clamouring to work for us?0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »No company cars (apart from the select few), no perks, no credit cards racking up points for airmiles which you can spend and claim back, no travel costs (I was surprised the other day when one of my colleagues in the private sector announced he actually gets his costs of travelling to work and back home reimbursed!!). No parking charges for working reimbursed. No bonuses, ever.
That's not true actually Graham...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/anger-at-pound130m-civil-service-bonuses-1848988.html23 December 2009
Opposition parties demanded reform of Whitehall's bonus culture today after research revealed civil servants shared payouts of almost £130m last year.
Highest spending department was the Ministry of Defence, which has already been heavily criticised for handing out £53 million in 2008/09, while the Department for Work and Pensions paid more than £23 million at an average of £216 with a further £6 million allocated for in-year rewards.
The Department for Transport set aside more than £12 million for bonus payments, while the Foreign Office spent £7.6 million rewarding 4,712 staff - an average of £1,612.
One senior civil servant at the Department of Health received a payment of £49,004. The biggest Foreign Office bonus was £30,000 and several other departments handed out lump sums worth more than £20,000.
The bonuses are officially termed "non-consolidated performance payments" and several ministers sought to justify them by saying they were to reward "exceptional" performance
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8975796.Sussex_councils_pay___8_6_million_to_staff_to_drive_at_work/Council staff are being paid 45% more than their private sector rivals to drive to meetings - at a direct cost to the taxpayer.
Latest figures show mileage claims from local authority employees across the county totalled £8.6 million.
Some councils, including Brighton and Hove City Council, offer workers up to 65p a mile to use their own cars to drive on local authority business.0 -
Whitehall mandarins weren't really the focus of my thread, just mortals.
Yep I agree the milage rate is high as I said earlier (they should be taxed on the difference above a set figure though, which drops with accrued milage), suppose they could just fund pool cars. They could pay for public transport and accept the lost hours too.:("If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Whitehall mandarins weren't really the focus of my thread, just mortals.
Birmingham City Council were paying their staff huge bonuses very recently. I assume some other councils had similar remunerations policies.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6982335.eceA council electrician has earned pay and bonuses of £124,000 in a year — far outstripping the remuneration of a minister of state or the head of a large comprehensive.
He claimed more than £90,000 in overtime, backdated pay and “stand-by” allowances. By contrast, a minister of state such as Tessa Jowell, the Olympics minister, earns £106,136.
They were also stupid enough to systematically discriminate against their female employees.
http://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2010/04/27/birmingham-city-council-could-face-1bn-bill-after-women-win-equal-pay-case-65233-26328507/#ixzz1PLEfDUgThe tribunal heard how a female cleaner on Grade 1 received £11,577 - the same grade as a street sweeper. But the sweeper actually earned £32,000 because of bonuses and overtime.
For a Grade 2 worker, such as a school crossing patrol, lunchtime supervisor or kitchen assistant, the salary was £11,737. But the highest paid refuse collector, also a Grade 2, took home £46,000.
A Grade 4 worker - which included a care assistant and refuse driver - should have earned just £12,291, but the highest-paid driver took home £50,000.
Mr Savage said: “Bonuses alone accounted for £15,000 of the street cleaner’s salary, £19,000 for the refuse collector, and £20,000 for the refuse driver. Part of the bonus was an attendance allowance just for turning up, which was denied to women on the same grade.”0
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