Landlord charging for Ground Rent notice?

angel_islington

I've had a Google search, but can't seem to find the answer. We pay Ground Rent as part of our leasehold agreement. Or at least we would if the landlord would send us the legally required notice. They've sent us a letter today (7 weeks after our last one no less) saying that they don't send a notice to any of their tenants because if they did they would have to charge for sending it and nobody is prepared to pay this.

Does anyone know if they can do this?

By law, as you may be aware, they have to send a Form of Rent Demand Notice before we are liable to pay but I can see no reference to being allowed to charge for sending this document.

clutton_2

read the lease which came with your property. It is unlikely that an admin fee is mentioned in the lease. If it is not mentioned then the Ground rent owner cannot charge you .

i pay several ground rents at £1.05 per year, so it's hardly worth the owner's time to write to me for it - but write he must. No invoice - no payment......

angel_islington

Thank you.

We checked out our lease, nothing in there about admin charges at all. We will get our lease checked out in more detail with our solicitor in the week but wanted to try and get some clarification if possible before then.

Our landlord is well known for their tricks. Despite our requests for the notice, which went ignored, they got their debt collection agents in, who (as they do) lied to us, in black and white. We have a letter from them that states it is our responsibility to inform the landlord if we have not received the notice and that payment is due regardless of whether the notice is sent or not. Amazing isn't it. They had the audacity to tell us our 'complaint' would not be considered 'valid' on this basis. I think they got the hint in the reply I sent back to them

boltonbird_3

I'm sure your solicitor will advise you, but I once had a lease where groundrent was due 'whether demanded or not'.

It got me in a spot of bother

tbs624

angel_islington wrote: »

We checked out our lease, nothing in there about admin charges at all. We will get our lease checked out in more detail with our solicitor in the week but wanted to try and get some clarification if possible before then.

Our landlord is well known for their tricks. Despite our requests for the notice, which went ignored, they got their debt collection agents in, who (as they do) lied to us, in black and white. We have a letter from them that states it is our responsibility to inform the landlord if we have not received the notice and that payment is due regardless of whether the notice is sent or not.

See http://www.lease-advice.org/information/faqs/faq.asp?item=176.

angel_islington

boltonbird wrote: »

I'm sure your solicitor will advise you, but I once had a lease where groundrent was due 'whether demanded or not'.

It got me in a spot of bother

I believe it used to be like that before the Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act 2002 came into play, which states that unless the prescribed Form of Rent Demand Notice is served then the Ground Rent is NOT liable to be paid. If no notice is served, then any landlord would not have a leg to stand on if they tried to instigate any recovery proceedings. I just wasn't sure whether or not they could legally make a charge for drawing up and serving that Notice. According to the Leasehold Advisory Service, it's lease dependent i.e if the lease says a charge can be made then they can, if no mention is made then they can't. Nothing in our lease

There's nothing stopping them not making any legally accurate demands for up to six years, and then requesting the whole lot in one go. We would then have to pay within I think 60 days. That wouldn't be a problem because we put aside the money every month and it would have been just sitting there earning us interest.

angel_islington

tbs624 wrote: »

See http://www.lease-advice.org/information/faqs/faq.asp?item=176.

Thanks but there's nothing on that site that specifically mentions the right to charge admin fees for Ground Rent.

clutton_2

if its not in the lease - they cannot charge you......

MANY firms who buy ground rents try this on when they first own them... just write back and send the exact ground rent..... and get a receipt...

tbs624

angel_islington wrote: »

Thanks but there's nothing on that site that specifically mentions the right to charge admin fees for Ground Rent.

You have already posted that there is no admin charge mentioned in your lease for the necessary paperwork to be sent to you. What is in your lease is what counts. Some LLs also try to ask for their GR in multiples other than those stipulated in the lease, in an effort to keep their paperwork/admin to a minimum when trying to collect piddling amounts of moneydue on each property. The lessee is only obliged to pay in the manner specified within the original lease: no admin fee mentioned means that you don't have to pay one. They are obliged by law to send you the demand with the appropriate wording, as you have already acknowledged, and will have to cover their own costs.

angel_islington

tbs624 wrote: »

You have already posted that there is no admin charge mentioned in your lease for the necessary paperwork to be sent to you. What is in your lease is what counts. Some LLs also try to ask for their GR in multiples other than those stipulated in the lease, in an effort to keep their paperwork/admin to a minimum when trying to collect piddling amounts of moneydue on each property. The lessee is only obliged to pay in the manner specified within the original lease: no admin fee mentioned means that you don't have to pay one. They are obliged by law to send you the demand with the appropriate wording, as you have already acknowledged, and will have to cover their own costs.

Leases are complicated documents, like most legal contracts are. They are often difficult to understand and seem to contradict themselves at times so it's hardly surprising that to non legal folk like myself there is an element of confusion or hesitancy in being sure of ones stance. I like to be sure, especially when I have to write back to the LL. We actually spoke to a practicing leasehold solicitor this week who told us that we had to pay the rent regardless of whether it was demanded or not and that the LL could charge an admin fee if they wanted! No, I didn't believe them either but it just goes to show how difficult it can be to get the right information.

Anyway, I replied to the LL reiterating that we won't pay the GR unless it's formally demanded and that there is no part of our lease that allows for admin charges and if they believe otherwise then to point it out to us. I also said that unless they reply with the legal demands for the GR then we would not be replying to any more of their letters. Now just got to wait and see what they do in reply.

angel_islington

Just as a quick update to this, we had a letter from the LL the other day, accurately requesting the GR due and removing all the charges, including the charge for drawing up the GR notice. It's obvious that they were just trying it on to see if we either were aware that they couldn't do so or whether we would eventually just give in. We stuck to our guns and it seems to have paid off. We know that we are not the only ones in our apartment block that this has happened to as there are notes from other tenants on the communal notice board, one of which suggests the LL was threatening to charge £200 for a late payment.