Meteor / Southeastern Parking

geordieracer

jlsmith wrote: »

Thanks - I was just trying to illustrate a principle, wondering if it applied to rail. Can anyone explain what a genuine railway byelaw ticket looks like?

Its not a 'ticket' so much as a letter to state that they are intending to prosecute under the byelaw

jlsmith_2

geordieracer wrote: »

Its not a 'ticket' so much as a letter to state that they are intending to prosecute under the byelaw

Ok, haven't had one if those either...

Who has the authority to prosecute? Must it be Southeastern Rail?

Coblcris

The Strategic Rail Authority has the power to make the Byelaws.
See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/38/part/IV/chapter/I
S.201 and s.219.
Within the Byelaws themselves the normal wording is
"“Operator” means:
(i) any person authorised to be the operator of a railway asset by virtue of him holding a licence granted in accordance with Section 8 of the Railways Act 1993 (as amended by the Transport Act 2000; as amended by the Railways Act 2005), and
(ii) those persons listed in Schedule One,"

Schedule One:-
SCHEDULE ONE
Byelaw 25(1), Definition of “Operator”: Operators defined under
sub-section (ii)

Abbey Rail Limited (Registration Number 04659708)
Broadway Rail Limited (Registration Number 04659516)
Golding’s Rail Limited (Registration Number 03266760)
Hay’s Rail Limited (Registration Number 03266762)
OQS Rail Limited (Registration Number 03076444)
Orchard Rail Limited (Registration Number 04659669)
South Eastern Trains Limited (Registration Number 03666306)
South Eastern Trains Holdings Limited (Registration Number 03266770)
Strutton Rail Limited (Registration Number 04659712)
Westminster Rail Limited (Registration Number 04661194)
Any other wholly owned subsidiary of the Authority to which the Exemption Order applies.

See Byelaw 14 (4) on liability.

jlsmith_2

So I guess Southeastern would fall under the category of having been granted an operators' licence.

I still haven't had a response from Debt Recovery & Prosecution services and in two weeks' time the 6 month window will be up for the first ticket. Maybe they are working furiously in the background to decide what to do so I will wait and see what happens in the next two weeks!

Anyway I'm still quite convinced that these parking charge notices are not adequate to support a prosecution under railway byelaws.

Will keep you posted.

jlsmith_2

Checking my notes, I see that today is the last working day that Meteor/DPS/Whoever could have 'laid an information' at a magistrates court in respect of my first PCN, which was dated 11/Jan. As of Sunday the 6 month window closes. I have had no reply to my letter of 14 June (other than Meteor washing their hands of the matter) - though I would be surprised if DRPS didn't resume some sort of threatogram chain in due course.

Stigy

jlsmith wrote: »

Checking my notes, I see that today is the last working day that Meteor/DPS/Whoever could have 'laid an information' at a magistrates court in respect of my first PCN, which was dated 11/Jan. As of Sunday the 6 month window closes. I have had no reply to my letter of 14 June (other than Meteor washing their hands of the matter) - though I would be surprised if DRPS didn't resume some sort of threatogram chain in due course.

As long as the matter is laid with the court within 6-months it's okay. Of course, they could have done so at the last minute, and you could still receive a summons through the post (if laid with court at 6-months, you might not have the case heard until 8-months for example), although unlikely I'd imagine.

jlsmith_2

Stigy wrote: »

As long as the matter is laid with the court within 6-months it's okay. Of course, they could have done so at the last minute, and you could still receive a summons through the post (if laid with court at 6-months, you might not have the case heard until 8-months for example), although unlikely I'd imagine.

Very unlikely I'd imagine. No ticket complying with a 'penalty' under law has been issued, and Meteor very naughtily referred to the 'fine' that I had received despite the ticket clearly stating it was a 'parking charge notice' for a 'breach of terms and conditions'. Effectively I have been threatened with a magistrates' court in an attempt to get me to pay a civil debt.

jlsmith_2

A further thought - is it actually possible for a body to lay information before a court without you actually knowing about it?

vax2002

jlsmith wrote: »

Very unlikely I'd imagine. No ticket complying with a 'penalty' under law has been issued, and Meteor very naughtily referred to the 'fine' that I had received despite the ticket clearly stating it was a 'parking charge notice' for a 'breach of terms and conditions'. Effectively I have been threatened with a magistrates' court in an attempt to get me to pay a civil debt.

Scam exposed.. well done !

Stigy

jlsmith wrote: »

A further thought - is it actually possible for a body to lay information before a court without you actually knowing about it?

Yes, although the only way you wouldn't know about it would be if you moved house or something. In which case you'd be entitles to 'fill out' a statutory declaration to say that you knew nothing about it, and any penalty imposed would be quashed until the matter could be heard with your knowledge.