Paypal debt collection

Kather1ne

Hi guys, I sold a cartier watch recently, originally I advertised it on ebay but I didn't sell it but one of the potential buyers asked if they could buy it privately so I said yes.

I sent them an invoice which stated it was a cartier watch and there were no refunds. The invoice was paid and I used the money to buy flights which was why I was selling it.

About a week later (although I didn't recieve it til I got back) I recieved an e-mail through paypal saying the item was 'materially not as described'. Initially I thought the buyer was saying it was a fake which I knew it wasn't but it turned out they had taken it to Cartier in London who had said it needed a full service and there was a problem with the winder.

The buyer then filed a claim with paypal who found in their favour, they never requested any information from me but it was clear what my invoice said, cartier watch, no refunds. I don't know what the problem with the winder was, the wacth definitely worked perfectly when it was sent.

I feel let down by paypal and I have already paid the money out that I recieved for the watch. I am trying my hardest to get it re-sold but so far the offers aren't coming in.

What I want to know is, do I have any rights? I have been through paypal's terms and conditions and am satisfied that the buyer could not be given a refund on the basis it needed a service but do I have any protection?

Paypal are saying they are going to take me to a debt collector now, I am trying so hard to get it sold and give them the £1,250 I need to, but I haven't managed to sell it yet and I never in a million years thought they would refund it. I knew it was a good buy when I sold it and there's no question as to its authenticity.

I don't want to gain anything, I just want to repay paypal but I would like to know if I have any recourse against paypal on the basis they should't have refunded the watch.

I would sooooooo appreciate any help or advice that you may have in order to sort this out.

Thanks so much.

geordieracer

You need to get all the info from Paypal and tell the buyer that you would like to meet them @ Cartier to decide if its real.

If you sold the watch - sold as seen then they have no recourse imo

Norfolk_Jim

This is no use to you now, sorry, I'm not gloating at your misfortune but this is one very good reason why you should not sell a valuable item sold as seen with payment by Pay Pal. Pay Pal live in a world of their own making. At least it sounds like you did get your watch returned albeit broken. Have you checked how much it might cost to fix it? You have my sympathy- sorry i cant help, a lot of people have issues with Pay Pal and it really needs looking at. Maybe Martin could do an article on it.

arcon5

trying to get PayPal to see sense = :wall:

Atleast with a debt collection agency you should be able to negotiate repayments over a period of time. This is assuming you willing to pay the additional fees though.

Have you spoken to the buyer on the phone or anything? If so what did they say about it all?

soolin

The buyer is correct in persuing you for the return. If it was not specifically sold as needing repair then they have a case to argue that they did not expect a watch that was in poor repair and paypal would be following UK law in requesting that you as a seller refund the money.

Obviously you can get the watch back first but it makes no difference to the result whether you have spent the money or have it stashed under your mattress.

Personally I would arrange to get the watch back if you have not already done so and make every attempt to beg or borrow the money to repay the debt. Paypal debt collection is a nasty thing, they already have warnings for over stepping th emark and whilst you can (and should) get advice from the debt board on MSE about what they can legally do to persue you and harrass you, ultimately you will ened to be prepared for a long and unpleasant time.

soolin

I would also add that this is NOT a paypal thing, this is UK legal requirements. You cannot sell something via a remote service as 'sold as seen' and any buyer is entitled to receive what they expected and to have a full refund if it arrives otherwise.

If you had done this through bank transfer then the buyer would have still had the right to persue you, and win, through a small claims court. It's just with paypal the ability to get a refund is simpler for the buyer. If this had gone through small claism though your ultimate bill would have bene much higher as you would have had to pay all the court fees and such like. However you are of course accruing debt colllection charges now and will pay for every nasty letter put through your door, every collector that turns up on your doorstep and every phone call.

vax2002

IMO:
Now then, was this sold outside of E.bay ?
if so it was a private transaction and outside of e.Bays consumer Auction regulations.
First thing is to cancel the direct debit with paypal with your bank and insist it must not be set back up by anyone.
Then tell paypal you dispute the debt and request that they move straight to court enforcment for a judgment.
The watch was sold as seen, outside e.bays rules with all faults and imperfections second hand watches can suffer.
Paypal acted as a bank here, not a guarentee service.
The chances of them winning the case in court and very very slim indeed.
Paypal have given the guy his money back, good on them, now they think they can harras you for thier generousity ?
He has the watch and the money, do not request it back, it makes your case stronger, although it is unclear who has the watch ????? .
Fortunatly we have Laws in this country and PayPal do not make them.
The buyer entered in to a contract to buy a watch sold as seen, it was with a private individual and not a trade sale , he had every opportunity to inspect the watch before buying it.
This is no different to buying a second hand car and taking it to the dealer who says: oo it needs a service and the brake pads are low.

shaun_from_Africa

The watch was sold as seen, .

This must be one of the most widely misused phrases when selling via the internet.
How can something be "sold as seen" when the person buying it hasn't seen it?

with all faults and imperfections second hand watches can suffer.

Fine, provided that those faults & imperfections (if any) were made clear to the buyer before they paid.

Paypal acted as a bank here, not a guarentee service

I thought that paypal buyer protection for not as described items now covered non ebay related purchases, in which case paypal do act as a sort of guarantee service if faulty or not as described items are purchased.

If the purchaser did take the watch to Cartier and they provided written proof that the watch had a problem with the winder and this was not disclosed at the time of sale, then I think that paypal are correct in refunding their money.
I know you take a risk when buying second hand goods, but the seller is still legally responsible for ensuring that the goods are described correctly, and however many times "no refunds or returns" is stated, this doesn't absolve anyone of their responsibilities.

soolin

vax2002 wrote: »

IMO:
Now then, was this sold outside of E.bay ?
if so it was a private transaction and outside of e.Bays consumer Auction regulations..

If you read the OP there is no mention of nay ebay claim being done, because as you say this was not an ebay sale.

vax2002 wrote: »

IMO: Fortunatly we have Laws in this country and PayPal do not make them.
The buyer entered in to a contract to buy a watch sold as seen, it was with a private individual and not a trade sale , he had every opportunity to inspect the watch before buying it.
This is no different to buying a second hand car and taking it to the dealer who says: oo it needs a service and the brake pads are low.

Yes thankfully we have laws in the country and it is those laws that make the buyer able to undertake a paypal chargeback for this item.

The difference with cars is likely to be that it is a face to face transaction so acceptance of th ecar is just that. This watch was not accepted as it was not a face to face transaction.

As per my post above this is not a paypal issue, it is a legal issue.

vax2002

Where is the "remote service"
it was a private sale, paypal was used as a carrier to transfer the money.
It was a private sale, sold as seen.
Paypal will not let this go to court, they fear loosing.
the 24 ct question is Who has the watch ?

George_Michael

The buyer entered in to a contract to buy a watch sold as seen

No quite correct.
The buyer entered in to a contract to buy a watch sold as described.

You keep saying

It was a private sale, sold as seen.

but is wasn't. How could it possibly be sold as seen when the buyer hadn't seen it?