DLA suggestions needed

Richard1075

You have to give full anecdotal information as to why you need help with your personal care. It appears from what you have written that you don't have the evidence and that is why you have been refused the benefit.

DLA is not awarded following a diagnosis, it is awarded when the claiment can show that his or her care needs are more than what is termed "normal" and the same applies to mobility.

The low rate of mobility is quite often awarded when there are mental health issues - they look at your ability to go somewhere without assistance, getting lost or confused, being a danger to others due to agressive behaviour.

Personal care, if you think about it something that has a more involved set of criteria. It looks at the level of care you require and the amount of time in each day that the personal care is required.

For instance, do you need to be motivated to get out of bed, get washed and dressed are normally related to mental health issues. Assistance in the physical act of getting up, washed and dressed because you have a physical disability is an area that is reflected in the rate of care awarded. So if you need help in the morning and again at night, you will not get the high rate of care, and it would be unlikely that your would get the medium either. These levels are given when the is a constant need for assistance.

It is quite normal for DLA to be awarded at the low rate when you cannot cook a meal for yourself due to mental health issues.

It is surprising that you did not get at least the low rate of both personal care and mobility. But it would appear that the evidence that you presented was not enough and did not show your need. It's no good just saying "I have a mental health issue so I need personal care" You need to show why and when you need the care - what happens when you don't have care - how often you have problems and giving full details of recent events that have happened to you because you didn't have the care.

Quite often people keep a diary and then they can look back to see what has happened over a period - how did the problems manifest themselves and real terms, what you did as a result of not having care and also how long it was before you were able to do other things.

The claim, decision, tribunal etc: are now in the past - I doubt that anything you can do will change that decision so what you need to be thinking about now is gathering new information [by that I mean actual factual incidents that have happened] and then seek the support of a medical professional to write a full report to back up your claim. Not only your GP but other Consultants, therapists or CPN.

I fhtere have been periods when you have been hospitalised then this will only add to the picture. Yes, I know there a lot of people who suffer in silence and it is very painful to keep talking about things in a way that show others how you feel and what your problems are as you would rather foget them - but it is a means to an end.

MrsManda

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

I don't want to go into my needs in relation to the benefit because it is really a spent issue - it's the one thing I deliberately have omitted because the question to me isn't do I qualify but how can I show that I clearly do in an evidential way in the processes available knowing that legally I am entitled.

How you provide the evidence required depends on what your needs are under the eligibility criteria for DLA.

Have you had a look at the detailed definitions for each part of DLA in the decision maker's guide? This may help you understand more about what you need to include on your form if you're going to fill
out a new application.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch61.pdf

It also may be worth looking at the DWP A-Z of medical conditions as that gives the details of possible sources of evidence the decision makers may need to contact if the evidence isn't included with the initial application form. For example, under epilepsy the potential sources are the applicants GP and hospital consultant.
It's a good idea to make sure that these 'sources' know your care/mobility needs and are aware of your application so that they have up to date information if they are asked to provide it.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/medical-conditions/a-z-of-medical-conditions/

tempested

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

I don't want to go into my needs in relation to the benefit because it is really a spent issue - it's the one thing I deliberately have omitted because the question to me isn't do I qualify but how can I show that I clearly do in an evidential way in the processes available knowing that legally I am entitled.

If you can find that magical formulae, then I would suggest you market it and possibly earn yourself a small fortune in passing on the 'knowledge'!!

At the end of the day it is who the Decision Maker is. To have this system of one saying 'not in a month of Sundays' yet another upon reconsideration says ' I totally agree with the claimant!' with no further eveidence having been supplied!!

I personally would not want to get into that 'betting ring'.
If the first claim and decision isn't what you think is fair. then close it and put in another.

The appeal structure is a joke. Using ill qualified 'Decision Makers' who I wouldn't trust to tell me the right time never mind make a valued and well reasoned decision. (Well they must be, if two of them can each come up with different answers!)

Then we have the judicial system that is supposed to be impartial and fair, yet they put forward questions in such a way that the claimant becomes distressed, never mind the fact that they act as prosecution and judge!!

As I have said, you come up with the definition of what is suitable evidence, from whom it should be obtained and in what format that will secure an award, then please sell it on!!

Muttleythefrog

Richard1075 wrote: »

You have to give full anecdotal information as to why you need help with your personal care. It appears from what you have written that you don't have the evidence and that is why you have been refused the benefit.

DLA is not awarded following a diagnosis, it is awarded when the claiment can show that his or her care needs are more than what is termed "normal" and the same applies to mobility.

The low rate of mobility is quite often awarded when there are mental health issues - they look at your ability to go somewhere without assistance, getting lost or confused, being a danger to others due to agressive behaviour.

Personal care, if you think about it something that has a more involved set of criteria. It looks at the level of care you require and the amount of time in each day that the personal care is required.

For instance, do you need to be motivated to get out of bed, get washed and dressed are normally related to mental health issues. Assistance in the physical act of getting up, washed and dressed because you have a physical disability is an area that is reflected in the rate of care awarded. So if you need help in the morning and again at night, you will not get the high rate of care, and it would be unlikely that your would get the medium either. These levels are given when the is a constant need for assistance.

It is quite normal for DLA to be awarded at the low rate when you cannot cook a meal for yourself due to mental health issues.

It is surprising that you did not get at least the low rate of both personal care and mobility. But it would appear that the evidence that you presented was not enough and did not show your need. It's no good just saying "I have a mental health issue so I need personal care" You need to show why and when you need the care - what happens when you don't have care - how often you have problems and giving full details of recent events that have happened to you because you didn't have the care.

Quite often people keep a diary and then they can look back to see what has happened over a period - how did the problems manifest themselves and real terms, what you did as a result of not having care and also how long it was before you were able to do other things.

The claim, decision, tribunal etc: are now in the past - I doubt that anything you can do will change that decision so what you need to be thinking about now is gathering new information [by that I mean actual factual incidents that have happened] and then seek the support of a medical professional to write a full report to back up your claim. Not only your GP but other Consultants, therapists or CPN.

I fhtere have been periods when you have been hospitalised then this will only add to the picture. Yes, I know there a lot of people who suffer in silence and it is very painful to keep talking about things in a way that show others how you feel and what your problems are as you would rather foget them - but it is a means to an end.

Thanks Richard. Yes it really is an issue of evidence. I don't have anyone caring for me and I am not getting any medical treatment at the moment so there's not really anyone to ask. But I've been in effect led to believe since before I made the claim that I would receive some sort of treatment that would imply there'd be someone to ask to support my claim who would be able to do so. I've now reached the conclusion that may never happen regarding the NHS.

Regarding qualifying for the benefit... yes agree with what you say. Although I did make a genuine solid legal case, with examples and diary, to highlight the needs. Even went to giving examples from the day in question of the tribunal when I did indeed get support.. to do things like you raise as typical examples. The tribunal was just a total disaster and (yes people may find this hard to accept as likely) seemed 'unusual'. There is some indication in the statement of reason of the tribunal that they simply ignored the CPN report that verified many of my key points - for example the CPN report highlighted repeatedly that I am self neglecting due to depression.. that I do not wash etc. There is also indication in the reasons that they simply overlooked the key elements of care. Things happened there that were not quite right - the GP at the start asked why I hadn't sought help before 2009 and I replied that I didn't trust the medical profession... perfectly reasonable question with honest answer. He started shouting things like 'I bet you'd change your mind if you had appendicitis'. It's a nightmare that I can't escape.

I suppose I need to start seeing my GP more... I haven't since October because I'm waiting for things to materialise from a psychiatric appointment which she requested and after 2 cancellations I finally managed to get. I have only left the house 3 times since I saw her in October..lol. But other medical professionals.. it's proving a dead end... as my GP joked when I did see her last... when you first saw a GP you were closer to getting regular contact with a CPN then than now because the service has gone when you were half way to getting one. I'm seeing medical pros who have such limited time they aren't sending letters even to my GP. The CPN report I managed to acquire was so badly typed up with such horrific english that I wouldn't be surprised if a 3rd party were to assume it was bogus to be blunt. And that CPN report was just a risk assessment.

What you're saying is right... unfortunately I'm not sure how much I can change about it...lol. I'd only likely be hospitalised if I try to kill myself - but as made clear to medical pros... I do not seek attention... if I try to kill myself then I will succeed. My coping mechanisms all surround concealment and avoidance... I avoid people.. complication. When I present to people in public for short periods of time in a controlled environment I can appear incredibly normal and that too is a real problem when trying to convey a reality. There is every possibility the tribunal found me unbelievable.. they certainly were dismissive. But again this is a trait associated with many schizoid personalities... when you've spent 20 years in a game of cat and mouse it's hard to stop playing for the convenience of appealing to people's intellectual deficiencies..lol


Anyway enough ramblings from me. A private psychiatric report is looking more attractive by the moment...lol

Muttleythefrog

MrsManda wrote: »

How you provide the evidence required depends on what your needs are under the eligibility criteria for DLA.

Have you had a look at the detailed definitions for each part of DLA in the decision maker's guide? This may help you understand more about what you need to include on your form if you're going to fill
out a new application.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch61.pdf

It also may be worth looking at the DWP A-Z of medical conditions as that gives the details of possible sources of evidence the decision makers may need to contact if the evidence isn't included with the initial application form. For example, under epilepsy the potential sources are the applicants GP and hospital consultant.
It's a good idea to make sure that these 'sources' know your care/mobility needs and are aware of your application so that they have up to date information if they are asked to provide it.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/specialist-guides/medical-conditions/a-z-of-medical-conditions/

Thanks Manda. The first link I haven't seen before so it's in my list of resources now. The second link I've studied with intrigue in the past but I now have more conditions to look into..lol.

Regarding sources - if there's potential for my GP to be contacted I will get in there first and hope she'll be prepared to listen or read... that's a mistake I won't be repeating but my growing pessimism leads me to think she may not be interested..lol. Unfortunately other sources I may have to pay for.. since NHS treatment.. well there may never be a source... after 2 years of believing there would be one I can't carry on assuming there will ever be one. There comes a point when you think all you can do is keep asking for help and hoping the referrals one day will stop... in fact just even being told you're being referred on would be a start..lol. Unfortunately the reality is I probably wouldn't be here in this mess for evidence if NHS mental health services weren't disappearing... when I started this process it was clear people in my type of situation were getting targetted help regarding claims from their CPNs whom they seemed to get regular access to and who understood well the sort of documentary help that would help their patients. So I thought eventually when I had mine I'd be in a situation to resolve any evidential issues (especially since this was what the GP said I was in the process of getting... 'it should take a few weeks though' he said) - unfortunately the only way I can get to see a CPN now is if I start pressing the sort of buttons that would lead me to a situation where I may not qualify for DLA care because my care would be institutionally provided..lol.

tempested

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

the GP at the start asked why I hadn't sought help before 2009 and I replied that I didn't trust the medical profession... perfectly reasonable question with honest answer. He started shouting things like 'I bet you'd change your mind if you had appendicitis'. It's a nightmare that I can't escape.


I suppose I need to start seeing my GP more... I haven't since October


as my GP joked when I did see her last... when you first saw a GP you were closer to getting regular contact with a CPN then than now because the service has gone when you were half way to getting one.

I have used that as a reason, as have many others that I know of that are mentally ill. I have actually known it to happen.

Patient goes to see GP at a time when patient just can't cope anymore. Been trying to cope for over 15 years with no one suspecting anything. Daughter took her as she found the patient (mum) in a terrible state. Guess what happened next? After some fafing around with other people, mum was put in a taxi with the GP and taken straight to the pysc lock up unit. I know that as I was in there myself when she came and told me what had happened. She swore then that she would never see a doctor again when she got out!

It is quite common not just for mental illness, not to seek medical help until it gets that bad or painful that coping anymore is not possible. My mum as an example died of treatable cancer, my grandfather died of a heart attack which was not his first - he just took some Asprin and got on with life and work, never having had a doctor come within 10 miles of him! I actually have a friend who is a gamekeeper, who carries out surgery on himself. Cuts etc, he carries a sewing needle and strong cotton and stitches his wound together.

You aren't the first and certainly won't be the last not to seek medical help for whatever reason.

You have hit the nail on the head!! The more you see the GP, the more you tell them how you are feeling, the more likely you will have a supporting report. It's a well known thing by so called 'scroungers'. They are never away from hospital or the GP's because they know how the system works, so they play the system to their own advantage. Those like you, me and many others that hate anything medical lose out - because if someone is really ill they would seek help immediately, as you didn't well that speaks for itself!!

Yes the mental health system is dead on it's knees! I always used to have a CPN and an OT which cordinated my care. Now you see the local 'Community Mental Health Team'. Complete waste of time, too few of them for too many patients. I gave up after the second visit. I refuse to go anymore. All that seems to happen now is that the GP prescribes anti psycotics etc, but no one checks on you. My GP even rang me up yesterday afternoon to see how I was - I had put my repeat script in - 'Oh I'm OK I suppose' Then he said 'OK, I'll put the script over the to pharmacy for 3 months supply - come and see me in 3 months' Yeah I thought!!!
You want the best report, the best help - go and pay privately for it!!!

Muttleythefrog

too true tempested. My relations are similar in relation to what you say about yours.. although the consequences haven't been so tragic. I remember back a few years to when I'd carried out surgery on my teeth as I was in extreme pain I couldn't tolerate any more... eventually a colleague at work insisted I go straight to hospital where I had some teeth extracted and got a lecture from a student dentist about oral hygiene... rather pointless since the condition of my teeth resulted from the consequences of mental illness not any lacking knowledge..lol. Depression alone ensures that constantly visiting GP or tormenting these people for action is just not possible. You have to try to be realistic about what is achievable I suppose... and it even affects how I will restart my campaign for DLA (care)... what is the obvious or sensible route may not necessarily be the most productive or workable one.

But you're right... it took an almighty shock and strange circumstances for me to seek help at all. For the umpteenth time in life I'd tried to start from scratch in a new job and was unable to contain all the symptoms of mental illness... lost normal ability to process environment and apparently tried to leave work by 4th floor window/wall. I found myself completely unable to make decisions or think clearly thereafter and so grasped for the only thing that made sense to me at the time.

For amusement... I did get private counselling within 72 hours paid for by work at the time - employer the NHS BSA..lol. 72 weeks would be an unrealistic expectation in the NHS...lol... it took me about that length of time to be assessed for waiting list of 12 months plus..lol.

Breast_Cancer_Survivor

I was initially turned down for DLA as they thought I was too good at writing letters to be as ill as I said I was.

They also commented on the fact that i'd managed to get married & have children despite the fact I was separated from my husband.

They also commented on the fact i'd managed to gain employment at various times of my life depite the fact i'd been off work with depression for over a year.

I persevered & won my higher appeal.

Can you get any help with your appeal from a professional as it really does help?

My OT attended my appeal with a lady from the NAS.

when_will_it_end

wow muttley i do not really have anything to add that has not already been said
all this can not be helping you at the minute

good luck which ever way you go

Muttleythefrog

Breast_Cancer_Survivor wrote: »

I was initially turned down for DLA as they thought I was too good at writing letters to be as ill as I said I was.

They also commented on the fact that i'd managed to get married & have children despite the fact I was separated from my husband.

They also commented on the fact i'd managed to gain employment at various times of my life depite the fact i'd been off work with depression for over a year.

I persevered & won my higher appeal.

Can you get any help with your appeal from a professional as it really does help?

My OT attended my appeal with a lady from the NAS.

I'm pleased you got somewhere. There is excellent evidence to suggest I may face similar issues - the counselling psychologist who assessed me did not seem to be able to correlate me in the physical form at assessment with the forms I was completing for her. She questioned why I seemed to place so much emphasis on needing a formal diagnosis. The psychiatrist I saw afterwards diagnosed the very condition which explains why she observed what she did and the psychiatrist tutted as he pointed it out...lol. And with my background I should also be able to present extremely well in a confrontational, technical, legal or written format if able to plan excessively - and this type of thing as you suggest will tend to make people struggle to properly comprehend what is your reality... how your illness works and how you can impressively counter symptoms. I was quoting caselaw to additionally give rise to help with bodily functions needed argument and I they looked at me like I was from another world.. perhaps they thought the world of eccentric but not mad...lol.

The help I got with my appeal from CAB was laughable to be honest... I could have done it better... and indeed I ended up driving the wording of the appeal. There are people who would benefit from their help I'm sure. I won't be using the CAB again and to be honest I can't imagine asking for help from any organisation again on the matter - it would cause me too much turmoil as I'll end up managing them. That's what I do - I take over people's responsibilities until I have taken them over.... but today I no longer have the energy to complete it...lol. What is paramount in my mind is that for 2 years now my life has been about telling anyone I meet the gross circumstances of my situation.. every time I do it again I shift further away from living in the reality I'm trying to depict...lol.

Mind you.. if that twilight zone comes with a power of prophecy I could be back in business..lol.. I'm guessing at best way to go based on probabilities of events occurring... and I don't like guessing..lol. If there is a professional out there who can take the guesswork out I'll buy a crystal ball and hand over my papers and a commission..lol.

Thanks for your advice and I hope you and partner get justice in any future DLA battles.!